Do we need a housecleaning in the athletics dept?

[CAS]

It's possible to have both academic and athletic excellence.  Look at Harvard's recent football and basketball run.  Is there a reason we can't compete with other Ivies in football and basketball?

[billhoward]

It's possible to have both academic and athletic excellence.  Look at Harvard's recent football and basketball run.  Is there a reason we can't compete with other Ivies in football and basketball?

There's an Ivy Eight Presidents' agreement: We don't mess with the rest of the league in football or (most years) basketball and swimming, and they leave us alone in wrestling and (most years) hockey and lacrosse. The agreement doesn't cover track & field or baseball; that's open still. Were this New Orleans, Harvard gets the hookers, Princeton gets the drug trade, and Cornell gets the gambling dens.

[Swampy]

It's possible to have both academic and athletic excellence.  Look at Harvard's recent football and basketball run.  Is there a reason we can't compete with other Ivies in football and basketball?

There's an Ivy Eight Presidents' agreement: We don't mess with the rest of the league in football or (most years) basketball and swimming, and they leave us alone in wrestling and (most years) hockey and lacrosse. The agreement doesn't cover track & field or baseball; that's open still. Were this New Orleans, Harvard gets the hookers, Princeton gets the drug trade, and Cornell gets the gambling dens.

Bill, have you noticed? Yale & Harvard have already taken one of our gambling dens: the one that's traditionally been our main source of psychic revenue. And after last spring and losses to graduation, don't hold your breath this spring for the other major one. Looks as if of the three dens you mention, we're going to be hanging on to only the smallest, least popular, most arcane one.

[CAS]

Totally agree Swampy.  In the words of The Donald, we don't win anymore.

[scoop85]

So far tonight:

Men's hoops -- home loss to Dartmouth
Women's hoops -- road loss at Dartmouth
Women's hockey -- 1-0 win over Dartmouth
Men's hockey losing 2-1 at Harvard

[RichH]

So far tonight:

Men's hoops -- home loss to Dartmouth
Women's hoops -- road loss at Dartmouth
Women's hockey -- 1-0 win over Dartmouth
Men's hockey losing 2-1 at Harvard

Wrestling is all that matters, silly.

[shasta1]

In my opinion cornell athletics got the most national recognition for the sweet 16 run.  If the administration had any basic common sense they would give men's basketball the most admissions slots to allow them to build the program with a NEW coaching staff.  Let's face it, with the exception of hockey and lacrosse no other sports get any national recognition! However as noted, Andy only really cares about the wrestling program and they break a ton of NCAA rules for that one.

[Scersk '97]

In my opinion cornell athletics got the most national recognition for the sweet 16 run.

"Recognition..." Hunh. I bet you love the kiss cam and the dance cam...

It's about competitiveness, championships, and good experiences for student-athletes. We can be competitive in both hockey and lacrosse, we win championships (even having a chance at national championships), and both programs really sit at the center of the Cornell student and student-athlete experience. Our traditional strengths are where investments should be made.

The Ivy League made a difficult but responsible decision regarding athletic scholarships some time ago, which made it impossible to compete against all the money and hype associated with football and makes it impossible to compete with the same in basketball. Why pour money into a crooked game played on a severely tilted court? I'd love to see basketball de-emphasized just as much as football has been—it's a fool's game.

[scoop85]

In my opinion cornell athletics got the most national recognition for the sweet 16 run.

"Recognition..." Hunh. I bet you love the kiss cam and the dance cam...

It's about competitiveness, championships, and good experiences for student-athletes. We can be competitive in both hockey and lacrosse, we win championships (even having a chance at national championships), and both programs really sit at the center of the Cornell student and student-athlete experience. Our traditional strengths are where investments should be made.

The Ivy League made a difficult but responsible decision regarding athletic scholarships some time ago, which made it impossible to compete against all the money and hype associated with football and makes it impossible to compete with the same in basketball. Why pour money into a crooked game played on a severely tilted court? I'd love to see basketball de-emphasized just as much as football has been—it's a fool's game.

However, Ivy League basketball has gone the other direction -- better recruits and more competitive nationally over the past decade.  Whether that makes sense in the grand scheme of things I cannot say.

[marty]

However as noted, Andy only really cares about the wrestling program and they break a ton of NCAA rules for that one.

Please list five or more examples that prove or disprove this thesis.  Cite sources as necessary and be advised that more weight will be given to objective arguments.  One hour time limit please. Be sure to sign the attestation.

[Scersk '97]

However, Ivy League basketball has gone the other direction -- better recruits and more competitive nationally over the past decade.  Whether that makes sense in the grand scheme of things I cannot say.

To my mind, if "more competitive nationally" means a sweet 16 appearance once every forever-and-a-while, what's the point? Let the athletic factories have their playground...

[CAS]

The problem is we are uncompetitive in football and basketball with the other Ivies, none of whom are national powers.  I don't expect us to compete with Bama & Kentucky.

[Scersk '97]

The problem is we are uncompetitive in football and basketball with the other Ivies, none of whom are national powers.  I don't expect us to compete with Bama & Kentucky.

Given the history of Ivy League football, I understand its cultural centricity during the fall. I'd like us to be competitive with the other Ivies in football as well.

But basketball? Whatever. Let the other Ivies chase the spurious honors involved with the national hype machine.

It's cold in Ithaca: let hockey forever remain a marker for our cultural difference.

[Ken711]

The problem is we are uncompetitive in football and basketball with the other Ivies, none of whom are national powers.  I don't expect us to compete with Bama & Kentucky.

Couldn't agree more. If Cornell can't even achieve a winning percentage in football and basketball, let alone compete for the Ivy Championship, we are doing a disservice to the student athletes.

[ugarte]

It's possible to have both academic and athletic excellence.  Look at Harvard's recent football and basketball run.  Is there a reason we can't compete with other Ivies in football and basketball?

Cornell is going to fall behind H/Y/P in athletics because we are behind H/Y/P in financial aid guarantees. It isn't athletic scholarships that are going to do us in, it's regular old financial aid. Being able to guarantee a full ride to middle class kids (actual middle class, not responds-to-a-survey-"I am middle class"-middle class) is a huge advantage in recruiting.