Basketball 2015-16

[ugarte]

Columbia is 4-0 in league and 15-6 overall.  They no sucky sucky.

And, at least in NYC, we could have had them if our guys finished just a little better at the rim that night.

[Al DeFlorio]

Columbia is 4-0 in league and 15-6 overall.  They no sucky sucky.

And, at least in NYC, we could have had them if our guys finished just a little better at the rim that night.

Having Hatter on the court would have helped, too.

[semsox]

You are what your record is.  Courtney is 25-46 in the Ivies, 1-2 this year. Does winning a third of your games merit an extension?  In the 6 years before Courtney was hired, Steve Donahue had 6 consecutive winning Ivy records, never finishing below 3rd in the league. We haven't finished in the top half of the Ivies since.

Here are the records of the last two coaches in their first five years:
3-11 (7th)
2-12 (7th)
4-10 (5th)
6-8 (5th)
8-6 (2nd)
Total: 23-47


6-8 (5th)
7-7 (5th)
5-9 (6th)
1-13 (8th)
5-9 (5th)
Total: 24-46

Winning a third of his Ivy games was enough to keep Donahue in Ithaca. If you're wondering, both coaches started year 6 at 2-2. Courtney lost two games to Columbia.  Donahue lost at home to the Lions and got beat by 40 at Penn.

To play Devil's Advocate here, let's just say that the state of the program inherited by Donahue was just a bit different than the one inherited by Courtney. The three seasons prior to Donahue's hire, the team went a combined 30-49 (15-27 Ivy). I'm sure you see where this is going, but Courtney inherited a program coming off the three best years in school history, culminating in a high profile run to the Sweet 16 that at the very least should have made it a bit easier to recruit. (For completeness, those 3 teams went 72-21 (38-4 Ivy) - Miss you Witt/Lou/Foote). I was firmly in the fire Courtney corner for most of the last two years, and I still think he's a terrible tactical coach, but it's hard to argue with the quality of the players he's brought to Ithaca. If Ivy League rules didn't strip Miller of his eligibility to finish here, we're likely looking at a contender to win the Ivies.

[ugarte]

You are what your record is.  Courtney is 25-46 in the Ivies, 1-2 this year. Does winning a third of your games merit an extension?  In the 6 years before Courtney was hired, Steve Donahue had 6 consecutive winning Ivy records, never finishing below 3rd in the league. We haven't finished in the top half of the Ivies since.

Here are the records of the last two coaches in their first five years:
3-11 (7th)
2-12 (7th)
4-10 (5th)
6-8 (5th)
8-6 (2nd)
Total: 23-47


6-8 (5th)
7-7 (5th)
5-9 (6th)
1-13 (8th)
5-9 (5th)
Total: 24-46

Winning a third of his Ivy games was enough to keep Donahue in Ithaca. If you're wondering, both coaches started year 6 at 2-2. Courtney lost two games to Columbia.  Donahue lost at home to the Lions and got beat by 40 at Penn.

To play Devil's Advocate here, let's just say that the state of the program inherited by Donahue was just a bit different than the one inherited by Courtney. The three seasons prior to Donahue's hire, the team went a combined 30-49 (15-27 Ivy). I'm sure you see where this is going, but Courtney inherited a program coming off the three best years in school history, culminating in a high profile run to the Sweet 16 that at the very least should have made it a bit easier to recruit. (For completeness, those 3 teams went 72-21 (38-4 Ivy) - Miss you Witt/Lou/Foote). I was firmly in the fire Courtney corner for most of the last two years, and I still think he's a terrible tactical coach, but it's hard to argue with the quality of the players he's brought to Ithaca. If Ivy League rules didn't strip Miller of his eligibility to finish here, we're likely looking at a contender to win the Ivies.

To play counter-devil's-advocate, Donohue's last year had a historically great Cornell senior class, assembled by almost pure luck. Foote ended up at Cornell because Gant almost died; Wittman happened to have a rich dad and a HS-senior-year injury; Dale was a 5'9" guard from Birmingham with Ivy-quality SATs (IIRC) and found Cornell, rather than the reverse. They all walked out the door when Donohue did, leaving a very depleted team behind and the exact same recruiting disadvantages that the Big Red have always had (less generous financial aid, less prestigious name*, godawful weather).

*Shut up, engineers. There are very few of you playing in the big-name sports.

Courtney's teams have always played good D and this year they have done some real good work. I'd be stunned if he were turfed unless the whole season craters.

Having Hatter on the court would have helped, too.

Yeah, probably, though Morgan has really grabbed the reins with Hatter out. Obviously I'd love to have them both on the court but I wonder if there is enough oxygen for both or if they overlap too much.

[Chris '03]

You are what your record is.  Courtney is 25-46 in the Ivies, 1-2 this year. Does winning a third of your games merit an extension?  In the 6 years before Courtney was hired, Steve Donahue had 6 consecutive winning Ivy records, never finishing below 3rd in the league. We haven't finished in the top half of the Ivies since.

Here are the records of the last two coaches in their first five years:
3-11 (7th)
2-12 (7th)
4-10 (5th)
6-8 (5th)
8-6 (2nd)
Total: 23-47


6-8 (5th)
7-7 (5th)
5-9 (6th)
1-13 (8th)
5-9 (5th)
Total: 24-46

Winning a third of his Ivy games was enough to keep Donahue in Ithaca. If you're wondering, both coaches started year 6 at 2-2. Courtney lost two games to Columbia.  Donahue lost at home to the Lions and got beat by 40 at Penn.

To play Devil's Advocate here, let's just say that the state of the program inherited by Donahue was just a bit different than the one inherited by Courtney. The three seasons prior to Donahue's hire, the team went a combined 30-49 (15-27 Ivy). I'm sure you see where this is going, but Courtney inherited a program coming off the three best years in school history, culminating in a high profile run to the Sweet 16 that at the very least should have made it a bit easier to recruit. (For completeness, those 3 teams went 72-21 (38-4 Ivy) - Miss you Witt/Lou/Foote). I was firmly in the fire Courtney corner for most of the last two years, and I still think he's a terrible tactical coach, but it's hard to argue with the quality of the players he's brought to Ithaca. If Ivy League rules didn't strip Miller of his eligibility to finish here, we're likely looking at a contender to win the Ivies.

That's fair, in part. The '11 team was never going to be as successful as the '08-'10 teams. It's not as if Steve left a core behind when he jumped to BC. The '10 team was its seniors. It's hard to blame the regression (from to the zenith of modern Cornell basketball) on a coach who had no hand in selecting the talent.

[margolism]

Morgan Ivy co-player of the week AND rookie of the week.

He is the 4th leading score among freshman in the country.

[ugarte]

To follow up a great weekend, we get Hatter back aaaaaaaaaand lose to Brown. Come on.

[scoop85]

To follow up a great weekend, we get Hatter back aaaaaaaaaand lose to Brown. Come on.

It's an old story, but Courtney's in-game coaching has not gotten better in almost 6 years.

[Ken711]

To follow up a great weekend, we get Hatter back aaaaaaaaaand lose to Brown. Come on.

It's an old story, but Courtney's in-game coaching has not gotten better in almost 6 years.

So true.

[rss77]

Luck always plays a role in sports and recruiting.  Ed Marinaro was overlooked by football recruiters because of a knee injury his senior year.  Chris Vandenburg who was a highly regarded basketball recruit (Personally recruited on campus by Hunter Rawlings) hardly ever got on the floor because of knee problems.  The list goes on. There is a reason that athletic recruits are called prospects-for most one does not know how they will develop.  For many of the kids who hold these "Signing Press Conferences" where they announce their choice of college things do not work out for them athletically. Credit on the other hand should go to Donahue and his staff for the way they developed Jeff Foote and the tendency to overlook other members of the Sweet 16 team besides Foote, Dale, and Wittman who contributed in great measure to that team's success.

[Ken711]

Cornell smacked down by Yale losing 52-83.

[ugarte]

Luck always plays a role in sports and recruiting.  Ed Marinaro was overlooked by football recruiters because of a knee injury his senior year.  Chris Vandenburg who was a highly regarded basketball recruit (Personally recruited on campus by Hunter Rawlings) hardly ever got on the floor because of knee problems.  The list goes on. There is a reason that athletic recruits are called prospects-for most one does not know how they will develop.  For many of the kids who hold these "Signing Press Conferences" where they announce their choice of college things do not work out for them athletically. Credit on the other hand should go to Donahue and his staff for the way they developed Jeff Foote and the tendency to overlook other members of the Sweet 16 team besides Foote, Dale, and Wittman who contributed in great measure to that team's success.

All true and well said. My point was less to diminish Donohue and what he did for the program and more to say that his peak is a bad point of comparison for future coaches (including Courtney) both because it was so uncharacteristic of the program, historically and because of the unlikely way the team came togehter.

[dbilmes]

Nice to see Shonn Miller drove down to Yale last weekend to cheer on his former teammates. Too bad that the stupidity of Ivy League rules prevented him from playing for the Big Red.

[CAS]

Cornell falls to Princeton 85-56 tonite.  Cornell is now 2-5 in Ivies this year, and 26-49 in Bill Courtney's 6 years.

[scoop85]

Cornell falls to Princeton 85-56 tonite.  Cornell is now 2-5 in Ivies this year, and 26-49 in Bill Courtney's 6 years.

Unfortunately more evidence that Courtney is in over his head and needs to go.