What a difference one goal makes

[underskill]

I believe it's a known trend that our recruits are younger than in previous time periods.  It was never unusual to get freshman in at 20-22 years old.  Now most of the freshman are 18-20 years old.  The younger age brings with it a steeper curve as it relates to be ready for NCAA level of play.  

I remember a former Cornell assistant coach telling me a few years ago that he couldn't believe that Cornell had resorted to recruiting high school kids.  Never paid much attention to it at the time, but maybe it actually means something ?

that seems to have more of an effect on say, power forwards whose bodies will be more filled out, and obviously Cornell doesn't compete for the Eichel types.

[Towerroad]

The logic I keep hearing on these pages goes something like this.

1. The instinct for finding the back of the net is somthing that a player brings with him. Coaching can help but if it is not there all the coaching in the world will not make a huge difference.

2. The System^tm is built from the crease out and is focused on defense.

3. The System^tm makes Cornell less desireable home for players with an instinct for the net.

4. The System^tm is a reflection of the Coach and his staff.

5. Failure to score is the fault of the Seniors.

It does not add in my book.

[billhoward]

I believe it's a known trend that our recruits are younger than in previous time periods.  It was never unusual to get freshman in at 20-22 years old.  Now most of the freshman are 18-20 years old.  ...

These entering freshmen players would then be ... more like the bulk of Cornell students.

[BearLover]

How about our seniors didn't turn out as good as projected. Ferlin and maybe Ryan and Bardreau gave us something of what I expected. Ryan is still not as good this year as last, lingering injury? Bardreau has not done as well as I expected, after getting picked for Juniors. Lowry probable came close, but of course he's no longer able. Overall I, and I expect most, were expecting considerable offense from these guys and they just didn't give it. Nor do I think it's the system holding them back, I just don't see it coming from them.

Bingo. This is the reason the team has struggled for three consecutive seasons.

The Class of 2015 came in with an excellent pedigree, and many of its players became key contributors from Day One. They helped a team with four seniors earn an NCAA Tournament berth and beat Michigan in the first round. In my lifetime, a Cornell team with a thin senior class had never been so successful.

So we had high hopes that the Class of 2015 would lead the team to be national-championship contenders for the next three years. That hasn't happened.

If this were a common phenomenon for Cornell, I think it would be fair to blame the coaching staff. But I believe that the Class of 2015's trajectory has been unprecedented in the Schafer Era.

Hopefully, it will remain an aberration. I don't want to go through a 20-year period of perpetual underachieving like Harvard had from 1994-95 through last season.

So a group of players get to Cornell and collectively have an amazing season, and then collectively barely progress afterwards. As others have said, it makes no sense to blame the players rather than the coaching staff for that.  The only thing unprecedented about the Class of 2015 was their raw offensive talent.  The coaching staff failed to take advantage of this talent.  

I question the premise that their non-development was aberrational.  Here are a few of the top offensive players in the past decade or so:

Vesce
Mouson
Topher
Riley
Greening

You'll notice that their stats barely improved also.  That is, Cornell attracts some strong offensive players, but besides the occasional jump from freshman to sophomore year, we never see any real improvement.  These players' trajectories are in line with those of the Class of 2015.

Ryan
Lowry
Ferlin
Bardreau
McCarron

There is the occasional player whose stats jump significantly from season to season--Roeszler, for instance.  Players like those are the real aberrations.  Moreover, I don't know how you can chalk improved stats up to player development versus factors such as "being on the power play unit" and "being on the first line."  It seems to me that under this coaching staff, players who put up great freshman numbers never significantly improve offensively after that point.

[scoop85]

How about our seniors didn't turn out as good as projected. Ferlin and maybe Ryan and Bardreau gave us something of what I expected. Ryan is still not as good this year as last, lingering injury? Bardreau has not done as well as I expected, after getting picked for Juniors. Lowry probable came close, but of course he's no longer able. Overall I, and I expect most, were expecting considerable offense from these guys and they just didn't give it. Nor do I think it's the system holding them back, I just don't see it coming from them.

Bingo. This is the reason the team has struggled for three consecutive seasons.

The Class of 2015 came in with an excellent pedigree, and many of its players became key contributors from Day One. They helped a team with four seniors earn an NCAA Tournament berth and beat Michigan in the first round. In my lifetime, a Cornell team with a thin senior class had never been so successful.

So we had high hopes that the Class of 2015 would lead the team to be national-championship contenders for the next three years. That hasn't happened.

If this were a common phenomenon for Cornell, I think it would be fair to blame the coaching staff. But I believe that the Class of 2015's trajectory has been unprecedented in the Schafer Era.

Hopefully, it will remain an aberration. I don't want to go through a 20-year period of perpetual underachieving like Harvard had from 1994-95 through last season.

So a group of players get to Cornell and collectively have an amazing season, and then collectively barely progress afterwards. As others have said, it makes no sense to blame the players rather than the coaching staff for that.  The only thing unprecedented about the Class of 2015 was their raw offensive talent.  The coaching staff failed to take advantage of this talent.  

I question the premise that their non-development was aberrational.  Here are a few of the top offensive players in the past decade or so:

Vesce
Mouson
Topher
Riley
Greening

You'll notice that their stats barely improved also.  That is, Cornell attracts some strong offensive players, but besides the occasional jump from freshman to sophomore year, we never see any real improvement.  These players' trajectories are in line with those of the Class of 2015.

Ryan
Lowry
Ferlin
Bardreau
McCarron

There is the occasional player whose stats jump significantly from season to season--Roeszler, for instance.  Players like those are the real aberrations.  Moreover, I don't know how you can chalk improved stats up to player development versus factors such as "being on the power play unit" and "being on the first line."  It seems to me that under this coaching staff, players who put up great freshman numbers never significantly improve offensively after that point.

Sean Collins, I believe, had a fairly big jump in scoring Senior year.

[Cop at Lynah]

True, but serious hockey players tend to do their internships (junior hockey) prior to enrolling in college

[marty]

How about our seniors didn't turn out as good as projected. Ferlin and maybe Ryan and Bardreau gave us something of what I expected. Ryan is still not as good this year as last, lingering injury? Bardreau has not done as well as I expected, after getting picked for Juniors. Lowry probable came close, but of course he's no longer able. Overall I, and I expect most, were expecting considerable offense from these guys and they just didn't give it. Nor do I think it's the system holding them back, I just don't see it coming from them.

Bingo. This is the reason the team has struggled for three consecutive seasons.

The Class of 2015 came in with an excellent pedigree, and many of its players became key contributors from Day One. They helped a team with four seniors earn an NCAA Tournament berth and beat Michigan in the first round. In my lifetime, a Cornell team with a thin senior class had never been so successful.

So we had high hopes that the Class of 2015 would lead the team to be national-championship contenders for the next three years. That hasn't happened.

If this were a common phenomenon for Cornell, I think it would be fair to blame the coaching staff. But I believe that the Class of 2015's trajectory has been unprecedented in the Schafer Era.

Hopefully, it will remain an aberration. I don't want to go through a 20-year period of perpetual underachieving like Harvard had from 1994-95 through last season.

I think you are letting the coaching staff off way too easily. They recrutied the "underperforming class", they coached the "underperforming class", they are the architects of "The System ^(tm). Sorry, there are some well paid professionals who need to take some responsibility here.

Again, I feel it needs to be pointed out that our "bad" years are years where we go .500.  Plenty of teams would take .500 as a bad year.

Somehow, Wisconsin is 2-18-4.  Big programs can have much, much, much worse years than .500.

And don't cry for Onion.  The folks at Achilles/Messa are crying a river this year. But yeah, a goal here and there would make such a difference.

[Towerroad]

How about our seniors didn't turn out as good as projected. Ferlin and maybe Ryan and Bardreau gave us something of what I expected. Ryan is still not as good this year as last, lingering injury? Bardreau has not done as well as I expected, after getting picked for Juniors. Lowry probable came close, but of course he's no longer able. Overall I, and I expect most, were expecting considerable offense from these guys and they just didn't give it. Nor do I think it's the system holding them back, I just don't see it coming from them.

Bingo. This is the reason the team has struggled for three consecutive seasons.

The Class of 2015 came in with an excellent pedigree, and many of its players became key contributors from Day One. They helped a team with four seniors earn an NCAA Tournament berth and beat Michigan in the first round. In my lifetime, a Cornell team with a thin senior class had never been so successful.

So we had high hopes that the Class of 2015 would lead the team to be national-championship contenders for the next three years. That hasn't happened.

If this were a common phenomenon for Cornell, I think it would be fair to blame the coaching staff. But I believe that the Class of 2015's trajectory has been unprecedented in the Schafer Era.

Hopefully, it will remain an aberration. I don't want to go through a 20-year period of perpetual underachieving like Harvard had from 1994-95 through last season.

I think you are letting the coaching staff off way too easily. They recrutied the "underperforming class", they coached the "underperforming class", they are the architects of "The System ^(tm). Sorry, there are some well paid professionals who need to take some responsibility here.

Again, I feel it needs to be pointed out that our "bad" years are years where we go .500.  Plenty of teams would take .500 as a bad year.

Somehow, Wisconsin is 2-18-4.  Big programs can have much, much, much worse years than .500.

And don't cry for Onion.  The folks at Achilles/Messa are crying a river this year. But yeah, a goal here and there would make such a difference.

The last 2.5 years have been pretty mediocre. Characterized by great goaltending, solid defence, anemic offense, poor powerplays, and lots of time in the penalty box. College sports has a 4 year turnover cycle. Do you see the current set of Juniors performing better than todays Seniors next year? Is there an incoming Freshman class that is measurably better than the last few? If it was one or even 2 years they might be abberations but this is looking like a trend that transcends any specific goup of players. That in turn falls at the coachs feet.

I bleed as Red as anyone. But I think we are rapidly approaching the point where we have to say. "This is not working". I hope I am wrong.

[ajh258]

How about our seniors didn't turn out as good as projected. Ferlin and maybe Ryan and Bardreau gave us something of what I expected. Ryan is still not as good this year as last, lingering injury? Bardreau has not done as well as I expected, after getting picked for Juniors. Lowry probable came close, but of course he's no longer able. Overall I, and I expect most, were expecting considerable offense from these guys and they just didn't give it. Nor do I think it's the system holding them back, I just don't see it coming from them.

Bingo. This is the reason the team has struggled for three consecutive seasons.

The Class of 2015 came in with an excellent pedigree, and many of its players became key contributors from Day One. They helped a team with four seniors earn an NCAA Tournament berth and beat Michigan in the first round. In my lifetime, a Cornell team with a thin senior class had never been so successful.

So we had high hopes that the Class of 2015 would lead the team to be national-championship contenders for the next three years. That hasn't happened.

If this were a common phenomenon for Cornell, I think it would be fair to blame the coaching staff. But I believe that the Class of 2015's trajectory has been unprecedented in the Schafer Era.

Hopefully, it will remain an aberration. I don't want to go through a 20-year period of perpetual underachieving like Harvard had from 1994-95 through last season.

I think you are letting the coaching staff off way too easily. They recrutied the "underperforming class", they coached the "underperforming class", they are the architects of "The System ^(tm). Sorry, there are some well paid professionals who need to take some responsibility here.

Again, I feel it needs to be pointed out that our "bad" years are years where we go .500.  Plenty of teams would take .500 as a bad year.

Somehow, Wisconsin is 2-18-4.  Big programs can have much, much, much worse years than .500.

And don't cry for Onion.  The folks at Achilles/Messa are crying a river this year. But yeah, a goal here and there would make such a difference.

The last 2.5 years have been pretty mediocre. Characterized by great goaltending, solid defence, anemic offense, poor powerplays, and lots of time in the penalty box. College sports has a 4 year turnover cycle. Do you see the current set of Juniors performing better than todays Seniors next year? Is there an incoming Freshman class that is measurably better than the last few? If it was one or even 2 years they might be abberations but this is looking like a trend that transcends any specific goup of players. That in turn falls at the coachs feet.

I bleed as Red as anyone. But I think we are rapidly approaching the point where we have to say. "This is not working". I hope I am wrong.

I've been saying this for years: mediocrity will continue unless something fundamental changes about the way we coach. The only question is, at what point does mediocrity become enough of an issue for changes to be made.

[BearLover]

How about our seniors didn't turn out as good as projected. Ferlin and maybe Ryan and Bardreau gave us something of what I expected. Ryan is still not as good this year as last, lingering injury? Bardreau has not done as well as I expected, after getting picked for Juniors. Lowry probable came close, but of course he's no longer able. Overall I, and I expect most, were expecting considerable offense from these guys and they just didn't give it. Nor do I think it's the system holding them back, I just don't see it coming from them.

Bingo. This is the reason the team has struggled for three consecutive seasons.

The Class of 2015 came in with an excellent pedigree, and many of its players became key contributors from Day One. They helped a team with four seniors earn an NCAA Tournament berth and beat Michigan in the first round. In my lifetime, a Cornell team with a thin senior class had never been so successful.

So we had high hopes that the Class of 2015 would lead the team to be national-championship contenders for the next three years. That hasn't happened.

If this were a common phenomenon for Cornell, I think it would be fair to blame the coaching staff. But I believe that the Class of 2015's trajectory has been unprecedented in the Schafer Era.

Hopefully, it will remain an aberration. I don't want to go through a 20-year period of perpetual underachieving like Harvard had from 1994-95 through last season.

So a group of players get to Cornell and collectively have an amazing season, and then collectively barely progress afterwards. As others have said, it makes no sense to blame the players rather than the coaching staff for that.  The only thing unprecedented about the Class of 2015 was their raw offensive talent.  The coaching staff failed to take advantage of this talent.  

I question the premise that their non-development was aberrational.  Here are a few of the top offensive players in the past decade or so:

Vesce
Mouson
Topher
Riley
Greening

You'll notice that their stats barely improved also.  That is, Cornell attracts some strong offensive players, but besides the occasional jump from freshman to sophomore year, we never see any real improvement.  These players' trajectories are in line with those of the Class of 2015.

Ryan
Lowry
Ferlin
Bardreau
McCarron

There is the occasional player whose stats jump significantly from season to season--Roeszler, for instance.  Players like those are the real aberrations.  Moreover, I don't know how you can chalk improved stats up to player development versus factors such as "being on the power play unit" and "being on the first line."  It seems to me that under this coaching staff, players who put up great freshman numbers never significantly improve offensively after that point.

Sean Collins, I believe, had a fairly big jump in scoring Senior year.

But he also wasn't a great raw offensive talent.  The guys who light it up their first year never seem to improve.

[upprdeck]

you can only recruit what you can get into the school. the best talents will go where it will be free, the rest go where they can get accepted.

[billhoward]

you can only recruit what you can get into the school. the best talents will go where it will be free, the rest go where they can get accepted.

Yale managed to run the table 2 years ago. Union's standards are not that far off from Cornell's or Yale's. And if Union accepts less than stellar-student hockey players, it's harder to bury them in a student body of 1100-1200 males than in a school of more than 10,000 undergrads.

[Trotsky]

I'm still firmly in the Schafer is God camp.  However, Yale is valid evidence that an Ivy can play firewagon hockey and win a title -- a thing I would have not believed before they did it.

From what I understand, Schafer based The System on the 3-time NCAA champion Lake Superior State teams of the late 80's and early 90's.  Those teams were built from the net out, though they did have offensive talent.  That model did and can win; it just turned out to be Union rather than us who made it all the way.

After 20 seasons I'm fairly confident that as long as Schafer is the coach, we will see those kind of teams.  I don't at all object to this, but as is obvious we do need to find a highly talented offensive player now and then to get us back to the Frozen Four.

[upprdeck]

there are some pretty good players getting into other ivies who cant seem to get into cornell.

[marty]

I'm still firmly in the Schafer is God camp.  However, Yale is valid evidence that an Ivy can play firewagon hockey and win a title -- a thing I would have not believed before they did it.

From what I understand, Schafer based The System on the 3-time NCAA champion Lake Superior State teams of the late 80's and early 90's.  Those teams were built from the net out, though they did have offensive talent.  That model did and can win; it just turned out to be Union rather than us who made it all the way.

After 20 seasons I'm fairly confident that as long as Schafer is the coach, we will see those kind of teams.  I don't at all object to this, but as is obvious we do need to find a highly talented offensive player now and then to get us back to the Frozen Four.

I think many of us believe we need TWO healthy scoring threats.  I remember when we were being congratulated online for landing Ferlin.  We need at least two of these AND they have to improve in the two to four years that they play for us.  At least that's what I dream of.