Ivy Standings

[Trotsky]

Net ECAC record vs non-Ivies: 12-34-8 .296

Code Select Expand


Cor 2-4-3
Brn 2-6-1
Hvd 1-6-2
Drt 0-9-0
Yal 5-2-2
Prn 2-7-0


And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."

[Jim Hyla]

Net ECAC record vs non-Ivies: 12-34-8 .296

Code Select Expand


Cor 2-4-3
Brn 2-6-1
Hvd 1-6-2
Drt 0-9-0
Yal 5-2-2
Prn 2-7-0


And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."

And it will probably stay that way, unless the Ivies loosen their rules. 5/6 of our first league games were non-Ivy, and they had 2 weeks of games played before we did. I don't know when they get to start coaches practices, compared to us. Any doubt we have trouble then?

[Trotsky]

I'm all for going to the ECAC schedule, but I think we're just seeing normal variation.  The Ivies have had the same disadvantage relative to the rest of the conference ever since Hockey East fled, and we've had strong periods.  Indeed, since that season (1985), Ivies have won 15 of the 29 ECAC championships - right at the 50% mark one would assume for having 6 of the 12 members.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

Wasn't it just a few years ago that 5 of the top 6 were Ivies?  Was that a statistical anomaly?  Or is this year?

[Trotsky]

Wasn't it just a few years ago that 5 of the top 6 were Ivies?  Was that a statistical anomaly?  Or is this year?

Ivies in the top 6 seeds:

85 - 3
86 - 3
87 - 2
88 - 2
89 - 2
90 - 2
91 - 2
92 - 4
93 - 3
94 - 2
95 - 2
96 - 2
97 - 2
98 - 3
99 - 2
00 - 2
01 - 3
02 - 3
03 - 5
04 - 4
05 - 4
06 - 3
07 - 3
08 - 3
09 - 5
10 - 2
11 - 4
12 - 3
13 - 2
14 - 2*

Counts:

0 - 0
1 - 0
2 - 14
3 - 10
4 - 4
5 - 2
6 - 0

Avg: 2.8

By decade:

80s: 2.4
90s: 2.4
00s: 3.5
10s: 2.6

* unfinished

[JDeafv]

And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."

Perhaps another reason for the Ivy League to split from the ECAC.  

I don't see a good reason for the Ivy teams to remain in the ECAC, especially with the Big-10 creating the model of a "small" 6 team conference.  With a 20-game (2 home, 2 away against each team) Ivy regular season, that leaves 9 OOC games, which is 2 more than the current number for Ivy teams.

It also evens the playing field for everyone in the league and avoids any more discussion of the late start disadvantage, especially if you start the season with league games.  

I've heard an argument that the Ivy teams don't want to split because the Ivy League won't allow a post-season tournament, but with the post-season tournaments in basketball and lacrosse I suspect that argument is not valid any longer.

[Trotsky]

Splitting would be a very, very bad idea.  If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football.  At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator.  Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

[Josh '99]

Splitting would be a very, very bad idea.  If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football.  At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator.  Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

Why would it necessarily be Ivy football (where the teams are prohibited from competing in any kind of postseason) and not, say, Ivy lacrosse (where the teams can be and are competitive nationally)?  It seems like the parallels are stronger to lacrosse (more regional sport, fewer schools participating overall).

[Trotsky]

Splitting would be a very, very bad idea.  If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football.  At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator.  Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

Why would it necessarily be Ivy football (where the teams are prohibited from competing in any kind of postseason) and not, say, Ivy lacrosse (where the teams can be and are competitive nationally)?  It seems like the parallels are stronger to lacrosse (more regional sport, fewer schools participating overall).

I have no good argument to back up my claim other than sheer terror at the prospect.

I also think the killing-time-before-entering-Pater's-bond-business profile is way different from the will-do-what-it-takes-to-get-the-fuck-out-of-Manitoba profile.

[TimV]

Splitting would be a very, very bad idea.  If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football.  At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator.  Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

+1.   Emphatically.

[Josh '99]

Splitting would be a very, very bad idea.  If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football.  At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator.  Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

Why would it necessarily be Ivy football (where the teams are prohibited from competing in any kind of postseason) and not, say, Ivy lacrosse (where the teams can be and are competitive nationally)?  It seems like the parallels are stronger to lacrosse (more regional sport, fewer schools participating overall).

I have no good argument to back up my claim other than sheer terror at the prospect.

I also think the killing-time-before-entering-Pater's-bond-business profile is way different from the will-do-what-it-takes-to-get-the-fuck-out-of-Manitoba profile.

I suppose that's a fair point, and in any case I'm not saying I'm in favor of splitting (even leaving aside the appeal of maintaining traditional rivalries, I think we're more likely to continue to be in a stronger conference overall if we stick with the non-Ivies) but I still feel like lacrosse is a closer parallel than football.

[nyc94]

Harvard beat Dartmouth last night so now one point clinches a shared title and two guarantees it outright.

A Princeton win or tie Friday against Brown gives us a share of the title.  We could clinch the outright title without playing another game if in addition to Princeton beating Brown, next Friday (2/21) Harvard fails to beat Yale and Dartmouth fails to beat Brown, or Princeton ties Brown, Harvard fails to beat Yale, and Dartmouth ties Brown.

Princeton beat Brown.
Edit: 2/21 Yale defeats Harvard, Dartmouth beats Brown. Dartmouth still alive to tie.