Win out or get screwed for the Big Red

[Tom P. \'98]

Cornell should just win out.

That being said, the flaws of the Pairwise system which while well documented are blatantly obvious here.  A school that finishes fifth in their conference (BU) should not get a number 1 seed let alone if they didn't even win the postseason tournament.

Looking at this from UHN's perspective, I would be really ticked.  You win the regular season championship.  You win the postseason championship.  You get sent west while the 5th seed you beat to win the title stays east because they bought the regional.  Things can still change but as pointed out, BU looks tough to knock out of the top four.

In the days when winning RS and postseason meant an automatic bye, it got you one game away from the Frozen Four and getting sent west was not that big a deal.  Now it gets you no closer to the FF and puts you hundreds and hundreds of miles from your fan base.  

Similarly if Cornell finishes third with UNH 2nd and BU 4th, Cornell stands a chance to get sent west.  To finish third we have to lose a game in Albany so our argument is not as strong as UHN's but we did beat BU twice and would be higher than them so to get sent west still makes no sense (well, it makes perfect sense by the rules)

Perhaps the Committee should come up with the bonus wins numbers so as to find a way to get BU out of the top four and justify them as a #2 seed.  Just playing with the numbers, I can't find a way to do that.  But I do like the way the numbers play out with Cornell benefiting more than UHN it appears.  

Wonder if the Committee will actually tell us the bonus point system they used so we can see if we actually did pass Colorado College (although their RPI can shoot up in the WCHA tournament).  We can probably guess though since BU seems a lock at #4, that whoever would draw BU in the semifinals finished #1 in the Committee's rankings.

[Robb Newman]

JY3 wrote:

[Q]these are all against top 15 pwr teams?[/Q]

No - top 15 RPI teams.

[peterg]

I would not underestimate the "ka-ching" factor.  The NCAA is about money, and CU is a much better draw in the east.  If I remember correctly, ability to draw fans is one of the considerations in deciding where a team plays.

[DeltaOne81]

[Q]I would not underestimate the "ka-ching" factor. The NCAA is about money, and CU is a much better draw in the east. If I remember correctly, ability to draw fans is one of the considerations in deciding where a team plays.[/Q]
Yes, but it's pretty much the last one, and, according to the guidelines, doesn't play into the seedings of the #1s at all. Besides, what part of your sentence it's just as true for UNH?

[Keith K \'93]

The basic point about seedings is, if you are Cornell or UNH would you rather be a #2 seed and play in Worcester/Providence or be a #1 seed and play in Ann Arbor/Minneapolis?  I suspect the #2 seed might look more attractive, though I can't really judge how much value a team might place on having the last line change in the regional final.

[Beeeej]

For me, it's all about the colors.  I've gotten over it a little bit in the last year or two, but I've always hated our road colors.  Seriously, we're the "home team" throughout the ECAC tourney - how cool would it be to remain the "home team" throughout the NCAA tourney (until and unless we play CC)?

Desperately needing sleep,
Beeeej

[ugarte]

If all you care about are the colors, you have too many frequent flyer miles to use.  I care about the proximity.

[Jordan]

[q]For me, it's all about the colors. I've gotten over it a little bit in the last year or two, but I've always hated our road colors. Seriously, we're the "home team" throughout the ECAC tourney - how cool would it be to remain the "home team" throughout the NCAA tourney (until and unless we play CC)?[/q]

Amen.

I don't hate the colors, per se.   I hate how we always seem to play in them.  Granted, if we're in those colors it means we're most likely on the road or a lower seed at a netrual site, so naturally we're not going to have the home-ice advantage, but we always seem a step slower and a bit sloppier in those Red unis.

But that could be all psychological on my part, being that I've been at 3 of our 4 losses this year -- all in red.  Anyway, I like the whites.

[Jordan Steele \'01]

If the bonus points  boost us like they seem to, and we win out in the ECACs, we may be wearing whites the whole tourny, even if we make it to the NCAA finals.

[CrazyLarry]

I can't believe that Tom has fallen for this specious 'BU is not a #1 seed because they finished 5th' argument.   BU played a killer non-conference schedule (#1 SOS by KRACH and not by a little, either) and did very well in it.  Their 5th place was a close 5th place, and then they won 3 playoff games against good teams.  A #1 seed is not a ridiculous result.  A #2 seed is certainly justified (KRACH has them #7), and now we're just talking about fine gradations.  

I want to stay East because I am going to be in Boston next week and it'd be nice not to have to figure out how to get to AA or the Twin Cities and then back to Philly on the fly.

[KeithK \'93]

Oh come on, Larry. Tom hasn't "fallen" for the 5th place argument.  Some of us have stated previously that we think conference standing should count for more when it comes to tournament selection/seeding.  I'd personally like to see UNH win the comparison with BU immediately based on HE finish (tourney and RS).  then either use RS or tourney finish or a combination of both to decide the BU/BC and BU/Maine comparisons.  We don't need arcane formulas to decide which team is better when they're from the same conference.

To sum up, it's not a specious argument if you start from the assumption that conference finish should matter.  The committee doesn't start from this point, so it remains just an argument.

[KeithK \'93]

A number of people I know have made the comment that they don't like our road uniform.  (It's obviously not the "colors".)  I feel the need to stand up for the road reds!  I actually prefer the road uniforms and would be extremely happy if they switched to the old time practice of wearing colored sweaters at home.

Lets go RED! :-)

[Tom Pasniewski 98]

I have no problem with a #2 seed.  They deserve a #2 seed.  They have had a great season (except against us).

All's I'm saying is that UNH played the same HE schedule BU did and finished seven points ahead of them.  UNH, while having an easier route to the title game, beat BU.  Both UNH wins over BU this season were shutouts.  Yet in the current scenario BU stays east and UNH goes west.  There's just something wrong with that result even if it is all according to the rules.  Going west as a 1 seed used to mean something in the 12-team tournament and now, while it means a somewhat easier first round game, it's lost a lot of meaning.

I don't want to finish third and get sent west and I'd rather not have to do Providence because tickets are much more expensive there.  I have tix for Worcester and will probably go to the Friday games in Worcester even if we wind up in Providence.  But I don't think I would go to the Providence games if we wound up in Worcester or maybe just the Sunday game in Providence.

[Adam]

I don't know if conference standings ought to count as an overall criterion.  I mean, conference games (which determine conference standings) are already counted in the overall record.  It's not like conference games/conference tourney games are somehow taken out of overall record, strength of schedule, or any other criterion.  

BU deserves to be where they are right now.

[CrazyLarry]

It is a specious argument.  Conference games count every bit as much as other games.  So do non-conference games.  I think all games are on equal footing as far as determining how good a team is.  BU lost 3.5 more conference games, their non-conference performance makes up for it, I see no problem there.

The problem here isn't BU's #1 seed, it's the fact they are hosting their regional and get to stay east over a higher seeded UNH team.  That's not based on performance at all, and I have a problem with that, too.  But it has nothing direct to do with finishing tied for 4th in their conference.