Should He Stay or Should He Go

[KeithK]

Given that the university will not do this, and the financial and personal investment I and others (including the university) make in Cornell sports, I want our sports teams to win games and titles -- I want a return on my investment. That comes in the form of on-field success (without off-field unpleasantness).

For me, return on investment is all of the memorable experiences I have had watching and xperiencing Cornell hockey. Winning titles is a part of that. But so is the heartbreak of losing in Buffalo or that horrible day trip to Placid in '98. Road tripping to the North Country or taking over Bright, win or lose. Or just the simple pleasure of watching a good hockey game. Would I prefer Cornell to win? Of course. But it's far from the end-all-be-all.

[Trotsky]

For me, return on investment is all of the memorable experiences I have had watching and xperiencing Cornell hockey. Winning titles is a part of that. But so is the heartbreak of losing in Buffalo or that horrible day trip to Placid in '98. Road tripping to the North Country or taking over Bright, win or lose. Or just the simple pleasure of watching a good hockey game. Would I prefer Cornell to win? Of course. But it's far from the end-all-be-all.

Very well said.  Comraderie and the thrill of watching us compete, often at a very high level.

[BMac]

I love you

I love you too

You're the best

NO YOU ARE

NO YOU!!!

BRO HUG!!!!!!

[Jim Hyla]

I love you

I love you too

You're the best

NO YOU ARE

NO YOU!!!

BRO HUG!!!!!!

Now stop that will you!

[Beeeej]

Given that the university will not do this, and the financial and personal investment I and others (including the university) make in Cornell sports, I want our sports teams to win games and titles -- I want a return on my investment. That comes in the form of on-field success (without off-field unpleasantness).

For me, return on investment is all of the memorable experiences I have had watching and xperiencing Cornell hockey. Winning titles is a part of that. But so is the heartbreak of losing in Buffalo or that horrible day trip to Placid in '98. Road tripping to the North Country or taking over Bright, win or lose.

Meeting my wife.

[JasonN95]

Given that the university will not do this, and the financial and personal investment I and others (including the university) make in Cornell sports, I want our sports teams to win games and titles -- I want a return on my investment. That comes in the form of on-field success (without off-field unpleasantness).

For me, return on investment is all of the memorable experiences I have had watching and xperiencing Cornell hockey. Winning titles is a part of that. But so is the heartbreak of losing in Buffalo or that horrible day trip to Placid in '98. Road tripping to the North Country or taking over Bright, win or lose.

Meeting my wife.

First date with my wife, with dinner at Little Joe's --I knew how to show a lady a good time!

[billhoward]

Given that the university will not do this, and the financial and personal investment I and others (including the university) make in Cornell sports, I want our sports teams to win games and titles -- I want a return on my investment. That comes in the form of on-field success (without off-field unpleasantness).

For me, return on investment is all of the memorable experiences I have had watching and xperiencing Cornell hockey. Winning titles is a part of that. But so is the heartbreak of losing in Buffalo or that horrible day trip to Placid in '98. Road tripping to the North Country or taking over Bright, win or lose.

Meeting my wife.

Met my wife, actually our first date, at a Cornell NCAA regional game. Gwen's dorm-mates thought it was incredibly romantic. I thought: two birds, one stone.

[KeithK]

Given that the university will not do this, and the financial and personal investment I and others (including the university) make in Cornell sports, I want our sports teams to win games and titles -- I want a return on my investment. That comes in the form of on-field success (without off-field unpleasantness).

For me, return on investment is all of the memorable experiences I have had watching and xperiencing Cornell hockey. Winning titles is a part of that. But so is the heartbreak of losing in Buffalo or that horrible day trip to Placid in '98. Road tripping to the North Country or taking over Bright, win or lose.

Meeting my wife.

Met my wife, actually our first date, at a Cornell NCAA regional game. Gwen's dorm-mates thought it was incredibly romantic. I thought: two birds, one stone.

I can see it now: Come to Lynah Rink! Watch some hockey, get married!

[George64]

Given that the university will not do this, and the financial and personal investment I and others (including the university) make in Cornell sports, I want our sports teams to win games and titles -- I want a return on my investment. That comes in the form of on-field success (without off-field unpleasantness).

For me, return on investment is all of the memorable experiences I have had watching and xperiencing Cornell hockey. Winning titles is a part of that. But so is the heartbreak of losing in Buffalo or that horrible day trip to Placid in '98. Road tripping to the North Country or taking over Bright, win or lose.

Meeting my wife.

Met my wife, actually our first date, at a Cornell NCAA regional game. Gwen's dorm-mates thought it was incredibly romantic. I thought: two birds, one stone.

I can see it now: Come to Lynah Rink! Watch some hockey, get married!

I met my late wife while on the faculty at SU, my first job after finishing graduate school at Cornell.   At first, Jan thought that I was also dating someone else, because I didn't ask her out on some weekends.  For years after we were married, she told friends that she knew I was really serious about her when I got a second season ticket.  

After her death in 2006, I memorialized those seats in section B.

[Trotsky]

Denver looking even more brilliant.

[Tom Lento]

Are we paying coaches for journeys? If so, Schafer had better be leading Senior Week rafting trips.

Actually, Cornell does pay coaches for things other than wins and championships. Historically, the AD has been willing to keep coaches with frankly terrible records around provided they were under contract and running the program the right way. In light of this, think about the facts of Schafer's current position:

1) Whatever the naysayers claim, his record is incredible. Cornell has been the class of the ECAC and Ivy League for most of the last 15 years, and has been nationally competitive at a level of consistency few teams achieve. That's a hell of an accomplishment from a W/L perspective. Even if you only consider 5 year windows, Cornell was pretty damn good prior to this season, and only an eyelash behind Yale and Union in terms of overall record and post-season accomplishments in the 5 years ending in 2012. The team is quite a bit further behind Yale and Union over the 5 seasons ending in 2013, but this amounts to 1 rebuilding year and 1 bad season (and this was a bad season - let's not sugar-coat it). That's hardly the sign of a massive decline. Even in the go go years of the 70s Cornell wasn't *always* the best - or even the second-best - team in the league. Not over a 10-15 year window.

2) Under Schafer's watch this team has had more news about humanitarian and senior CLASS award finalists than even minor scandals regarding off-ice behavior. That doesn't mean these guys are all angels, but it's at least a sign of a clean, disciplined program. If that trend continues, and assuming Schafer still enforces class attendance and academic performance the way he used to, it'll take more than a couple of .500 seasons for the AD to make a change.

3) According to something I read around here Schafer has ~4 years left on his contract. Given points 1 and 2 Cornell would be insane to fire him during that term. Even if this year is finally the start of the kind of decline the "Fire Schafer" crowd has been carping about around here for the past 6 years, they won't fire him. They'll simply decide to part ways at the end of the contract term, and split as amicably as possible.

Barring a major scandal, Schafer isn't getting fired any time soon. At this stage I think I have sufficient perspective to realize that this is as it should be. Feel free to disagree and focus solely on the record in these conversations, but remember - Cornell athletics is, at least to all appearances, about more than just winning.

That's not the point. Coaches are not paid for a "journey." They are paid to win games and titles. They are also representatives of the university/team/club and have obligations to represent that entity in a responsible way. This is not a comment on whether or not Schafer should be behind the bench in October, I addressed that on the first page of this thread. It's about how coaches are evaluated. If you want to talk about how coaches ought to be evaluated, that is a different discussion.

I get the feeling you didn't actually read my post. My entire point was that coaches at Cornell are paid for more than just wins and titles, and the way they (and their teams) represent the organization are a more important part of how they're evaluated than you seem to believe. It's not just Cornell, either, it happens around the Ivy League, and you can see this if you look at the coaching histories of their hockey teams. The most obvious example is Allain's predecessor at Yale, Tim Taylor, who was the head coach for 30 years (with 2 seasons off to coach in the Olympics) and widely regarded as a classy guy and an excellent representative of Yale and its athletic program. Taylor's record over his 28 seasons at Yale was 342-433-55, with 11 seasons over .500, just 3 seasons with 20+ wins, 1 1st place finish, 1 NCAA appearance (first-round loss), and 0 league championships.

To put it another way, if Cornell has 2 more 15-16-3 seasons I'd still expect Schafer to have his job at least until his contract runs out, because by all accounts he does well across *all* of the other dimensions (the academic and community service records of his team, alumni relations, administrative work, etc.). Whether or not that gets him an extension beyond the last year of his contract is an unknown, and the only thing that would surprise me with 2 more mediocre seasons is a really long or lucrative extension. 3 consecutive nearly-.500 seasons is actually unprecedented in the modern (ECAC) era of Cornell men's hockey. The only coach with 3 straight losing seasons is Brian McCutcheon, and two of those years were dreadful (14 wins *combined*).

[billhoward]

Denver looking even more brilliant.

Coach with two national titles in the past decade bounced, top prospect leaves. Maybe Bill Tierney can coach two sports.

[Roy 82]

Given that the university will not do this, and the financial and personal investment I and others (including the university) make in Cornell sports, I want our sports teams to win games and titles -- I want a return on my investment. That comes in the form of on-field success (without off-field unpleasantness).

For me, return on investment is all of the memorable experiences I have had watching and xperiencing Cornell hockey. Winning titles is a part of that. But so is the heartbreak of losing in Buffalo or that horrible day trip to Placid in '98. Road tripping to the North Country or taking over Bright, win or lose.

Meeting my wife.

Met my wife, actually our first date, at a Cornell NCAA regional game. Gwen's dorm-mates thought it was incredibly romantic. I thought: two birds, one stone.

I can see it now: Come to Lynah Rink! Watch some hockey, get married!

I met my late wife while on the faculty at SU, my first job after finishing graduate school at Cornell.   At first, Jan thought that I was also dating someone else, because I didn't ask her out on some weekends.  For years after we were married, she told friends that she knew I was really serious about her when I got a second season ticket.  

After her death in 2006, I memorialized those seats in section B.

Where is the smiley for :lump in throat: ?

+2

[Jim Hyla]

Ken Schott reports that Union coach Bennett gets contract extension.

I've been fortunate enough to get the job about 30 minutes after Nate had left, and to my loyalty, too, to this program to not be out looking for other jobs when I am 100 percent comfortable at Union College.

"I don't have any desire to go anywhere else. I'm extremely happy here."

So, he's not available.:-D

[ugarte]

Ken Schott reports that Union coach Bennett gets contract extension.

I've been fortunate enough to get the job about 30 minutes after Nate had left, and to my loyalty, too, to this program to not be out looking for other jobs when I am 100 percent comfortable at Union College.

"I don't have any desire to go anywhere else. I'm extremely happy here."

So, he's not available.:-D

Who knows? Ask Steve Alford.