Harvard 6 Cornell 1 ECAC post-game & site critique

[css228]

Another point to remember: the AHA does not hold a consolation game, so I'd bet that most of the 2,443 in Rochester were actually inside the BCA for the final.

Another thing that hurt the AHA attendance was that the RIT women were playing for the NCAA DIII Championship at the exact same time at RIT as the AF - RIT game at the BCA. So I know that pulled from the attendance the AHA game.

Not to mention that Air Force, being halfway across the country, wasn't likely to have much of a showing there.

[jtn27]

I stayed for the first 10 or 15 minutes of the second game. There were more Cornell fans there than Harvard fans (Union had a decent showing though). I also got told off by security for heckling the Harvard sieve.

[Greenberg '97]

Another thing: during the trophy presentation, neither the rink announcer nor Steve Hagwell made any mention of hoping to see people back in 2013.

There were also no flyers being distributed offering fans a chance to preorder tickets for next year's finals, as there were in 2011.

[billhoward]

ECAC tournament attendance since 2000. The chart shows Saturday attendance for 3 years in Lake Placid, for 8 years in Albany, and 2 years in Atlantic City. All red bar means Cornell played in the title game; half red, Cornell played in the semis and consolation; gray, Cornell didn't make it to the semis.

[clear]
Thanks, Kingpin, for pulling together the attendance numbers back to 2000, and I hope I transcribed correctly.

The highest attendance was: Albany with Cornell and Harvard in the final (2003, 2005, 2006), followed by Albany with Cornell and Union in the final (2010).

The two years Cornell failed to make the semifinal/final round (2004, 2007), attendance fell 22% from the year before when the title game was Cornell-Harvard.

Stats for only the last 3 years in Lake Placid may not be enough to be significant. Cornell was there all 3 years and either St. Lawrence or Clarkson was there all 3 years. Attendance was pretty consistent, around 6,500 each year. The place holds ~ 8,000 so you could see how the ECAC worried about selling out (the arena, not the fans. That came with Atlantic City.)

Any suggestions why the 3-year dip in Albany 2007, 2008, 2009? (Average attendance, 5,100) That's probably what got the ECAC looking around, and when the title game in the final Albany year was Cornell-Union and attendance shot up by a third, maybe the ECAC already had boardwalk fever.

I think the best draw in the future would be Cornell, Harvard and Union or RPI as the final four, in Albany, with the title game Cornell-Union/RPI or Cornell-Harvard. But that seems obvious even without a chart.

So if you're the ECAC, what's your next step?

I posted previous attendance figures on the forum last year, so I have them handy. I've also added the last three years in Lake Placid (capacity 7,700), which is as far back as collegehockeystats.net goes.

Atlantic City
2012: 4,131 (Union, Harvard, Cornell, Colgate)
2011: 4,126 (Yale, Cornell, Dartmouth, Colgate)
Albany
2010: 6,505 (Cornell, Union, Brown, St. Lawrence)
2009: 4,857 (Yale, Cornell, St. Lawrence, Princeton)
2008: 4,851 (Princeton, Harvard, Cornell, Colgate)
2007: 5,565 (Clarkson, Quinnipiac, St. Lawrence, Dartmouth)
2006: 7,093 (Harvard, Cornell, Dartmouth, Colgate)
2005: 8,637 (Cornell, Harvard, Colgate, Vermont)
2004: 6,489 (Harvard, Clarkson, Colgate, Dartmouth)
2003: 8,296 (Cornell, Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown)
Lake Placid
2002: 6,518 (Harvard, Cornell, RPI, Clarkson)
2001: 6,256 (St. Lawrence, Cornell, Harvard, Dartmouth)
2000: 6,790 (St. Lawrence, RPI, Colgate, Cornell)

Another thing: during the trophy presentation, neither the rink announcer nor Steve Hagwell made any mention of hoping to see people back in 2013.

[kingpin248]

The highest attendance was: Albany with Cornell and Harvard in the final (2003, 2005, 2006), followed by Albany with Cornell and Union in the final (2010).

In both the years when attendance broke 8,000, the Big Red were especially dominant in the regular season (39 points both times, if memory serves).

Stats for only the last 3 years in Lake Placid may not be enough to be significant. Cornell was there all 3 years and either St. Lawrence or Clarkson was there all 3 years. Attendance was pretty consistent, around 6,500 each year. The place holds ~ 8,000 so you could see how the ECAC worried about selling out (the arena, not the fans. That came with Atlantic City.)

Agree on all. I did notice that a North Country team was present in each of those last LP years. In fact, either Clarkson or St. Lawrence made the final four at all ten tournaments in Placid - and the '99 final might have sold out the Olympic Center, as it was an all-North Country affair.

Any suggestions why the 3-year dip in Albany 2007, 2008, 2009? (Average attendance, 5,100) That's probably what got the ECAC looking around, and when the title game in the final Albany year was Cornell-Union and attendance shot up by a third, maybe the ECAC already had boardwalk fever.

I would think so, given that the decision to go to Atlantic City was announced in September 2009.

[billhoward]

Bill - please let me know if you have a higher-res version of the TV crew shot. I'd greatly appreciate it.

Uploaded. A couple other people asked about photos, too. I uploaded all or most all the Cornell section, band, and RPI TV photos to my photo site. Go to billhoward.phanfare.com/cornellsports

[jtwcornell91]

Another point to remember: the AHA does not hold a consolation game, so I'd bet that most of the 2,443 in Rochester were actually inside the BCA for the final.

Another thing that hurt the AHA attendance was that the RIT women were playing for the NCAA DIII Championship at the exact same time at RIT as the AF - RIT game at the BCA. So I know that pulled from the attendance the AHA game.

Not to mention that Air Force, being halfway across the country, wasn't likely to have much of a showing there.

The fact that it was St. Patrick's Day may also have had something to do with it.

[marty]

Any suggestions why the 3-year dip in Albany 2007, 2008, 2009? (Average attendance, 5,100) That's probably what got the ECAC looking around, and when the title game in the final Albany year was Cornell-Union and attendance shot up by a third, maybe the ECAC already had boardwalk fever.

I would think so, given that the decision to go to Atlantic City was announced in September 2009.

Many of us remember the boos at the mention of Atlantic City during the 2010 Albany ECACs.  Some of us participated in those catcalls.

[Jim Hyla]

I think the best draw in the future would be Cornell, Harvard and Union or RPI as the final four, in Albany, with the title game Cornell-Union/RPI or Cornell-Harvard. But that seems obvious even without a chart.

What the chart doesn't have is a Cornell-Clarkson tournament. Note that each year that we missed, Clarkson was there. I suspect when Casey gets that program back on track, and if the tournament gets back to a place that's within reasonable driving distance for them, they will be the second biggest draw.

[Scersk '97]

I think the best draw in the future would be Cornell, Harvard and Union or RPI as the final four, in Albany, with the title game Cornell-Union/RPI or Cornell-Harvard. But that seems obvious even without a chart.

What the chart doesn't have is a Cornell-Clarkson tournament. Note that each year that we missed, Clarkson was there. I suspect when Casey gets that program back on track, and if the tournament gets back to a place that's within reasonable driving distance for them, they will be the second biggest draw.

Indeed, my only quibble with Bill's post is that the biggest draw in Albany is indubitably the Clarkson, Cornell, RPI, and Union foursome, preferably with Cornell and Clarkson coming in as #1 and #2 so that fans have a bit more time to consider making the trip.

[bas23]

Any suggestions why the 3-year dip in Albany 2007, 2008, 2009? (Average attendance, 5,100) That's probably what got the ECAC looking around, and when the title game in the final Albany year was Cornell-Union and attendance shot up by a third, maybe the ECAC already had boardwalk fever.

I would think so, given that the decision to go to Atlantic City was announced in September 2009.

Many of us remember the boos at the mention of Atlantic City during the 2010 Albany ECACs.  Some of us participated in those catcalls.

There was booing for Atlantic City at the MSG game, too.  It was glorious.

[Rosey]

Indeed, my only quibble with Bill's post is that the biggest draw in Albany is indubitably the Clarkson, Cornell, RPI, and Union foursome, preferably with Cornell and Clarkson coming in as #1 and #2 so that fans have a bit more time to consider making the trip.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that what is really needed is more success at a national level so more casual fans give a crap. Seriously, the ECAC is rightly viewed as the also-ran of D1 hockey: last national championship in 1989, last title game appearance 1990, last frozen four appearance 2003. Trying to hunt for higher attendance by moving the tournament around is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, when what is needed is a course change. I know lots of people with no Hockey East association who go to the HE tournament; by comparison, I barely know anyone lacking an ECAC association who even knows what the ECAC is, much less who would bother going to a tournament featuring teams that seem to be content competing in a walled garden.

[Trotsky]

And since I left before Saturday's games, were there really more people there for the finals than on Friday? Or was that number counting everybody who went home after Friday?

We'd have to know whether those are ticket sales or turnstile numbers.

Cornell and Union had OK showings; Colgate and Harvard had zippo.  The building felt empty and there was no energy except for the last 5 minutes or so of the final.  They have to move the tournament to a different city.  It was an interesting experiment, but it failed.

Is Broome County (Binghamton) a possibility?  Only 6500 seats, but that might actually work to the advantage of the tournament by generating a shortage.

The XL Center in Hartford is undergoing a $100M renovation, and they will be looking for events to show it off.

The DCU Center in Worcester has 12k seats (8k when they shut down the upper bowl).

And there always the War Memorial, site of the deceased, unlamented, but aptly named Syracuse Hockey Invitational Tournament.  Again, tiny (600), but it would be full.

[Beeeej]

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that what is really needed is more success at a national level so more casual fans give a crap. Seriously, the ECAC is rightly viewed as the also-ran of D1 hockey: last national championship in 1989, last title game appearance 1990, last frozen four appearance 2003. Trying to hunt for higher attendance by moving the tournament around is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, when what is needed is a course change. I know lots of people with no Hockey East association who go to the HE tournament; by comparison, I barely know anyone lacking an ECAC association who even knows what the ECAC is, much less who would bother going to a tournament featuring teams that seem to be content competing in a walled garden.

To my utter shock, I met more than one casual fan at the tournament - the one for whom I remember the details was a D-III college hockey fan who lives in Philadelphia, and figured he'd come see what all the fuss is about with D-I.  He was impressed.

Not with Cornell, natch.

[Trotsky]

I know lots of people with no Hockey East association who go to the HE tournament

I wonder how much of that is the Boston area connection, where college hockey is prominent and lots of fans have six degrees of separation connections via having grown up with players, coaches, etc.

Boston does have the huge advantage that college hockey is advertised throughout the year, and the Beanpot gives local people a reason to go and get interested in the sport.  It's the healthiest hockey atmosphere in the northeast, it's a genuine destination city, so it's ideal.

The only remotely (by a 1:20 ratio) comparable place we have for grassroots civic involvement is Albany.  Given that Union and Cornell are poised for several more years of very good teams and that Casey may have finally pulled Clarkson's head out of its nether regions, there is at least the potential to build up a real tradition.  The future of the league is definitely west.  BU/BC suck all the air out of the eastern end of the league, and there is no strongly competitive force on the western border yet.