Red Cast Really Sucks

[Jim Hyla]

But comparing the cost to purchase the video feed to the cost of a ticket only makes sense if actually attending the game is a realistic option.

That's your take. I get it and it's not unreasonable. But oftentimes our perception of value is influenced by other similar products. It doesn't matter that I'm in California and (mostly) can't attend Cornell game sin person. I still have the in person experience as a point of comparison for determining how much the video feed is worth.

That makes no sense.  If I am raised in Norway and move to the Sudan, my personal experience of the unremarkableness of feeling cool has no effect on how much I will pay for air conditioning.

In fact it might increase it. If I didn't live in Syracuse, I'd certainly be willing to spend more, not less, to see a good product. To me in that situation the ticket price would be meaningless. If there was a rich alum who subsidized ticket prices, and then I moved away, I'd be willing to cough up to see the games on video. To me the price I'm willing to pay is determined by the fun I receive. Better broadcast, more fun, regardless of ticket price. After-all, if I lived in the Sudan, my "ticket price" to see a game live, would be substantial.

[Towerroad]

But comparing the cost to purchase the video feed to the cost of a ticket only makes sense if actually attending the game is a realistic option.

That's your take. I get it and it's not unreasonable. But oftentimes our perception of value is influenced by other similar products. It doesn't matter that I'm in California and (mostly) can't attend Cornell game sin person. I still have the in person experience as a point of comparison for determining how much the video feed is worth.

The bottom line is that given your particular set of preferences the price you are willing to pay for Redcast or a good product like RPI's is $0.00. That is ok with me. That is what I am willing to pay to watch RPI sports. So, in both cases we are not customers or potential customers so our preferences don't count with the respective institutions.

The bottom line is that Cornell is a business. To offer a crappy product like Redcast or a good product like RPI's there has to be a business case that makes sense to the University. You can argue that good will will carry the day but in the end these sorts of products need to generate revenue. The classic business model is subscriptions and advertising. I am willing to pay for a good product, but no longer willing to pay for Redcast. It will take a number of people like me and some advertisers to make quality video a reality. There may not be enough of us to make the venture go.

BTW, I put the Womens games up on my 48 inch flat panel. Wow, the RPI product really is good and worth paying for. The play by play was better than Redcast as well.

[Trotsky]

The bottom line is that Cornell is a business.

Cornell is a trinity: a dream-crushing, soul-devouring juggernaut hockey program, a highly commendable socialist academic project, and a scabrous commercial real estate swindle that can eat a bag of dicks.

[upprdeck]

Isnt the real issue pretty simple
1) what is the actual cost of production
2) what quality can it be produced at
3) what is the demand
4) how much profit/loss will they stand
5) does the school really care

The answer to #1 is you could probably with some effort get the labor for almost free, we have shown that already.  the equipment cost these days is pretty low.  the place is already wired and cornell has huge bandwidth so that leaves whatever overhead cost to split the signal/insert ads which again companies do it for next to nothing on some web sites. How much time/effort doesd managing the production take?  Again i think they could get volunteers for much of this as its valuable work experience for many fields.

for #2 the quality can be whatever they want it to be. there is not tech reason it cant be high quality and in reality its not really much more expensive to produce high quality than crap quality

for #3 how much of the demand is a function of #1 and #2.  high cost/ bad quality lowers the demand. How much it lowers it is unknown as I dont think cornell has done any survey.  Surveys that that could get done for free thru Cornell infrastructure already.  Drop a question in the renewal docs, put a flyer in the SUN. post things on twitter/facebook and the athletic  dept web pages.

#4 does it need to make a profit? can it stand to produce a small loss or even a big loss?

#5 from my conversations the school does not care, they provide some service and the ATh dept does not care enough to make it better or easier or cheaper. Until someone higher up the food chain pushes little will get done.

[Towerroad]

Isnt the real issue pretty simple
1) what is the actual cost of production
2) what quality can it be produced at
3) what is the demand
4) how much profit/loss will they stand
5) does the school really care

The answer to #1 is you could probably with some effort get the labor for almost free, we have shown that already.  the equipment cost these days is pretty low.  the place is already wired and cornell has huge bandwidth so that leaves whatever overhead cost to split the signal/insert ads which again companies do it for next to nothing on some web sites. How much time/effort doesd managing the production take?  Again i think they could get volunteers for much of this as its valuable work experience for many fields.

for #2 the quality can be whatever they want it to be. there is not tech reason it cant be high quality and in reality its not really much more expensive to produce high quality than crap quality

for #3 how much of the demand is a function of #1 and #2.  high cost/ bad quality lowers the demand. How much it lowers it is unknown as I dont think cornell has done any survey.  Surveys that that could get done for free thru Cornell infrastructure already.  Drop a question in the renewal docs, put a flyer in the SUN. post things on twitter/facebook and the athletic  dept web pages.

#4 does it need to make a profit? can it stand to produce a small loss or even a big loss?

#5 from my conversations the school does not care, they provide some service and the ATh dept does not care enough to make it better or easier or cheaper. Until someone higher up the food chain pushes little will get done.

I suspect that #5 is the key and you are probably right.

[Tom Lento]

But comparing the cost to purchase the video feed to the cost of a ticket only makes sense if actually attending the game is a realistic option.

That's your take. I get it and it's not unreasonable. But oftentimes our perception of value is influenced by other similar products. It doesn't matter that I'm in California and (mostly) can't attend Cornell game sin person. I still have the in person experience as a point of comparison for determining how much the video feed is worth.

The bottom line is that given your particular set of preferences the price you are willing to pay for Redcast or a good product like RPI's is $0.00. That is ok with me. That is what I am willing to pay to watch RPI sports. So, in both cases we are not customers or potential customers so our preferences don't count with the respective institutions.

The bottom line is that Cornell is a business. To offer a crappy product like Redcast or a good product like RPI's there has to be a business case that makes sense to the University. You can argue that good will will carry the day but in the end these sorts of products need to generate revenue. The classic business model is subscriptions and advertising. I am willing to pay for a good product, but no longer willing to pay for Redcast. It will take a number of people like me and some advertisers to make quality video a reality. There may not be enough of us to make the venture go.

BTW, I put the Womens games up on my 48 inch flat panel. Wow, the RPI product really is good and worth paying for. The play by play was better than Redcast as well.

At the risk of opening old sores, I'd like to point out that Cornell *had* a free video stream for men's ice hockey that offered more reliable video at a higher quality than the current Redcast offering about, oh, 8 years ago. Folks on this board (not me, I'll admit, as I'd already spent all of my meager graduate student spending money on season tickets) made some direct donations to help Age cover his costs. Given that the proof of concept for a free high-quality video stream was proven years ago, it shouldn't be too surprising that a fair number of people around these parts have decided that $0 is the right subscription price.

Where the comparison to the old Cornell hockey stream came apart was on full coverage - RedCast provides audio and video for a wide variety of sports, so in some sense subscription fees for the popular streams would subsidize video streaming for other sports with smaller audiences. Except, of course, that Yale is now able to provide streaming video across a wide variety of sports for free, at higher quality, and on a superior platform. Once again, the end user subscription price has been set at $0 by a direct competitor.

Cornell's AD might not have the alumni funding necessary to make the service free, but I'm pretty sure they could get it if they made a concerted effort to provide a quality product. They might not have the resources to coordinate a home-grown streaming video setup of sufficient quality to keep said alumni donors happy, but I'm sure they could get some leeway on the quality and consistency if the operation was primarily student-run. They might be stuck in a contract for a few more years with RedCast, but they'd have nobody but themselves to blame for that.

Paradoxically, some of the people who won't pay money for a stream might be more willing to make a voluntary donation to keep a decent video stream running (plus other things). I know I would - I hardly ever get to watch anything on the video stream, so paying for RedCast makes zero sense for me even if they can provide a quality product. But donating money to keep a free stream going, especially if it's student-run, seems a lot more worthwhile to me.

[Trotsky]

It's too bad we don't have a pool of talented and creative people who don't have jobs yet and are looking to build their skills and resumes.

[BMac]

Thanks for linking to this Touchdown initiative.

Can we get a page set up for Lynahcast?

Whom should I contact?

[billhoward]

Video feed from Yale hockey last night was outstanding ($10 gets you access to all 4 ECAC playoff games). Lax audio-only feed from Yale today sounds like an analog underseas transmission from overseas. The commercials, inserted at the station, are clear. Ouch.

[Al DeFlorio]

Video feed from Yale hockey last night was outstanding ($10 gets you access to all 4 ECAC playoff games). Lax audio-only feed from Yale today sounds like an analog underseas transmission from overseas. The commercials, inserted at the station, are clear. Ouch.

Sidearm responds to me complaint by saying it's a school problem, and they will contact the school.  Now we're just getting wall-to-wall ads.

[billhoward]

Video feed from Yale hockey last night was outstanding ($10 gets you access to all 4 ECAC playoff games). Lax audio-only feed from Yale today sounds like an analog underseas transmission from overseas. The commercials, inserted at the station, are clear. Ouch.

Sidearm responds to me complaint by saying it's a school problem, and they will contact the school.  Now we're just getting wall-to-wall ads.

But OMG unless this is a replay from 2011, there's a free - free! - video feed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7cI0FDx5Ic

[Trotsky]

The women's game is up on Redcast and the video looks much better than usual.

Also, I am getting the feed despite not being logged in, so I assume this is free.

[Al DeFlorio]

The women's game is up on Redcast and the video looks much better than usual.

Also, I am getting the feed despite not being logged in, so I assume this is free.

ncaa game ---> free

[billhoward]

The women's game is up on Redcast and the video looks much better than usual.

Also, I am getting the feed despite not being logged in, so I assume this is free.

ncaa game ---> free

NCAA *women's* game ---> free

[marty]

Redcast Highlights from QPac Game 2

Apologies for cross posting in Other Sports