MSG Hockey v. Michigan

[Beeeej]

Newark is closer to midtown Manhattan than JFK.

No, it's not.

Actually, it is, by any reasonable measure you might choose. I'll use Google Maps driving directions, which judges them closer to each other than the direct line I was originally implying.
http://g.co/maps/mu5ey
http://g.co/maps/kansg

Yes, Newark is obviously closer to the west side of Manhattan than JFK is.  I thought you meant "midtown Manhattan" when you said "midtown Manhattan."  

http://g.co/maps/78zcc
http://g.co/maps/2aga3

Since when is Times Square "the west side of Manhattan"? Did you even look at the maps I posted?

Times Square is on the west side of Manhattan.  Even on the maps you posted, which I did look at.  That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

And for what it's worth, yes, I concede, Times Square is part of what is considered "midtown Manhattan" - but so is the News building at 42nd and 2nd, and that is closer to JFK than it is to EWR.  As long as you think I'm picking nits, I may as well go ahead and do it - about half of Manhattan is closer to EWR than to JFK, and about half of Manhattan is closer to JFK than to EWR.  You just happened to pick a spot that agreed with your premise instead of one that didn't.

I'm sure people in Boston would scoff at my telling people I'm from Boston when I really live in Somerville. But the issue here is what someone like Red Berenson means when he says "New York", not what a New Yorker means when he says "New York". Christ, is this really that hard to understand? I think you people like picking nits because you have nothing better to do. I'm simply making the point that Red might say "New York" even if the game is at the Rock.

And I think anybody who would say "New York" when the game is scheduled to be in Newark, New Jersey, in the building where the New Jersey Devils play, is an idiot.

Yes, I have no doubt that you, as a New Yorker, would think so. That's why I'm not really that interested in what you think about what the term "New York" means in what someone not from New York says.

I'm sorry, I forgot - as someone who lives in the Boston area, you would obviously know better than I or anybody else what someone from Regina, Saskatchewan, who lives in Michigan, might mean when he refers to "New York."

No, I repeat, I sincerely and vehemently doubt that "someone like Red" believes that Newark qualifies as New York or would use "New York" to refer to Newark.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

At least with the choice of words "New York," we can rule out the possibility of playing another game at the Prudential Center next season during that time slot.

That's optimistic, but people refer to Somerville, Cambridge, Newton, and Wellesley as "Boston" all the time, yet none of them are actually in Boston. The Pru is close enough to New York to qualify as "New York" to someone like Red.

But at least those are all in Mass. It's common to refer to city suburbs in the same state by the city. I've not seen that for out of state suburbs, but maybe it happens.

Haven't specifically heard it either, but surely the eastern suburbs are still "in Philadelphia" and the western suburbs are "in Kansas City."

For the record, Philadelphia has no claim to Camden.  ::moon::

[Josh '99]

At least with the choice of words "New York," we can rule out the possibility of playing another game at the Prudential Center next season during that time slot.

That's optimistic, but people refer to Somerville, Cambridge, Newton, and Wellesley as "Boston" all the time, yet none of them are actually in Boston. The Pru is close enough to New York to qualify as "New York" to someone like Red.

But at least those are all in Mass. It's common to refer to city suburbs in the same state by the city. I've not seen that for out of state suburbs, but maybe it happens.

I think people who live in NYC tend to use more detailed terminology here to refer to suburbs (i.e., you're correct, would not call Newark "New York"), but I think that's because if you used "New York" collectively to refer to the whole area you would be referring to such a large geographical area that it's not an informative descriptor (the "New York metropolitan area" includes parts of three states, including the five counties of NYC, Nassau County on Long Island, Westchester and Rockland Counties in mainland NYS, Fairfield County in Connecticut, and maybe as many as six counties in New Jersey), rather than because it's across state lines.  Heck, I've heard people who live in not-particularly-distant parts of Brooklyn say "go into New York" to mean "go from Brooklyn to Manhattan".  

So, I think you're right that it's not common for people here to refer to out-of-state NYC suburbs as "New York".  That being said, Red rarely leaves Michigan, and I could see someone from the Midwest using "New York" as shorthand for "the New York city metropolitan area", and that that descriptor as used by him could include Newark or Uniondale.

All that being said, our men are in the top 15, our women are among the best handful of teams in the country, and we'll find out where this game is eventually, so I feel really silly for wasting my time parsing Red's words when I could actually be talking about the team.  Let's go Red.  (Cornell Red, not Red Berenson.)  Harvard sucks.

[Rosey]

No, I repeat, I sincerely and vehemently doubt that "someone like Red" believes that Newark qualifies as New York or would use "New York" to refer to Newark.

Your opinion on the subject is noted.

[Rita]

Update pertaining to this thread. Matt Slovin, who is the student sports editor for The Michigan Daily who is also the beat reporter for Michigan hockey, tweeted two hours ago:

Can confirm: Michigan Hockey to play Cornell next season, per Berenson. Game will be played in New York.

I asked Matt Slovin whether "New York" means MSG (as we all suspected) or Ithaca. Here's his response:

Sounds like MSG. Michigan coach's statement was purposefully ambiguous.

Link: https://twitter.com/#!/MattSlovin/status/169958158511517696

Well as long as nits are being picked and words parsed, any chance of the game being held in Buffalo? That is still in New York, correct?

(ducks as the "upstaters and downstaters" debate this). ::bolt::

[css228]

For the record, Philadelphia has no claim to Camden.  ::moon::

Which is why East Philadelphia is the Delaware River. Still, and saying this as someone from the western suburbs, Cherry Hill is more Philadelphia than most of the Main Line.

[KeithK]

Yes, I have no doubt that you, as a New Yorker, would think so. That's why I'm not really that interested in what you think about what the term "New York" means in what someone not from New York says.

Beeeej isn't a New Yorker.  He moved to Brooklyn.

[ugarte]

Well as long as nits are being picked and words parsed, any chance of the game being held in Buffalo? That is still in New York, correct?

I know that you're joking but what if upstate isn't totally ridiculous? Maybe the game will be in Ithaca as part of a 2 for 1 or something. "Intentionally ambiguous" is an intriguing phrase.

[ugarte]

Yes, I have no doubt that you, as a New Yorker, would think so. That's why I'm not really that interested in what you think about what the term "New York" means in what someone not from New York says.

Beeeej isn't a New Yorker.  He moved to Brooklyn.

Brooklyn is New York. Beeeej isn't a New Yorker because he grew up upstate.

[Rosey]

Yes, I have no doubt that you, as a New Yorker, would think so. That's why I'm not really that interested in what you think about what the term "New York" means in what someone not from New York says.

Beeeej isn't a New Yorker.  He moved to Brooklyn.

Brooklyn is New York. Beeeej isn't a New Yorker because he grew up upstate.

Just like I'll never be "from Boston" because I moved here at 22. But that doesn't mean I can't learn the accent and squawk the local conventional wisdom. Converts are usually the most devoted followers.

[Beeeej]

Yes, I have no doubt that you, as a New Yorker, would think so. That's why I'm not really that interested in what you think about what the term "New York" means in what someone not from New York says.

Beeeej isn't a New Yorker.  He moved to Brooklyn.

Brooklyn is New York. Beeeej isn't a New Yorker because he grew up upstate.

If Beeeej isn't a New Yorker, it's because he was born in New Jersey.  Further away from midtown Manhattan than JFK, even.

But I think Keith wins this thread.  ::whistle::

[Ben]

When I saw 19 unread comments in this thread, I assumed that Michigan or CU had announced the event and y'all were talking about it. Instead, you were comparing the distance from The Centre of the Universe to two mediocre airports. Thanks, guys.

[Beeeej]

When I saw 19 unread comments in this thread, I assumed that Michigan or CU had announced the event and y'all were talking about it. Instead, you were comparing the distance from The Centre of the Universe to two mediocre airports. Thanks, guys.

What are you, new?

[Jim Hyla]

At least with the choice of words "New York," we can rule out the possibility of playing another game at the Prudential Center next season during that time slot.

That's optimistic, but people refer to Somerville, Cambridge, Newton, and Wellesley as "Boston" all the time, yet none of them are actually in Boston. The Pru is close enough to New York to qualify as "New York" to someone like Red.

But at least those are all in Mass. It's common to refer to city suburbs in the same state by the city. I've not seen that for out of state suburbs, but maybe it happens.

I think you're disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable. How many states share a name with a big city, where that big city is right on the border of another state? "New York" here clearly refers to the city. When you choose "New York airports" in Expedia, it includes LGA, JFK, and EWR. Newark is closer to midtown Manhattan than JFK. When my buddy who lives in Jersey City tells someone in Boston where he's from, he says "New York". Etc., etc.

And FWIW the Rock was not the problem with the game two years ago. I'd be perfectly happy hitting the Rock for a game between Cornell and Michigan. I would probably skip an MSG game between Cornell and Colgate.

I don't think I was trying to be disagreeable. I was just trying to point out how suburban people seem to differ in how they refer to where they live. But if you feel better feeling I was disagreeable, that's OK with me.

[Robb]

At least with the choice of words "New York," we can rule out the possibility of playing another game at the Prudential Center next season during that time slot.

That's optimistic, but people refer to Somerville, Cambridge, Newton, and Wellesley as "Boston" all the time, yet none of them are actually in Boston. The Pru is close enough to New York to qualify as "New York" to someone like Red.

But at least those are all in Mass. It's common to refer to city suburbs in the same state by the city. I've not seen that for out of state suburbs, but maybe it happens.

I think you're disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable. How many states share a name with a big city, where that big city is right on the border of another state? "New York" here clearly refers to the city. When you choose "New York airports" in Expedia, it includes LGA, JFK, and EWR. Newark is closer to midtown Manhattan than JFK. When my buddy who lives in Jersey City tells someone in Boston where he's from, he says "New York". Etc., etc.

And FWIW the Rock was not the problem with the game two years ago. I'd be perfectly happy hitting the Rock for a game between Cornell and Michigan. I would probably skip an MSG game between Cornell and Colgate.

But if you feel better feeling I was disagreeable, that's OK with me.

Stop being so agreeable.