ECAC Inferiority

[Swampy]

PBS had a good show about the NCAA last night. Its premise was that the NCAA's purpose is to channel the revenues generated by college sports from college atheletes to the administrators of college athletic programs and to  coaches.  This is so obvious it's hard to believe they felt a show was needed to expound upon it.  

Not only can players not be paid while they are performing, they are required to sign over to the NCAA all their rights to the use of their images and recordings of their performances in perpetutity.  They are excluded from all the revenue generated by ESPN Classic rebroadcasts, use of their images in games, etc.  All of it goes to the NCAA and to the athletic departments of its members.

In exchange for this they are given free tuition, board, books and whatever, most of which their own lack of preparation and the demands of their athletic endeavors prevent them from exploiting anyway.  And, just to be sure they don't sacrifice their athletic preparation to their academic, their scholarships, by NCAA rule, are limited to 1 year.  i.e., an athletic scholarship is subject to annual renewal.

As much as intercollegiate athletics exploits the atheletes, it corrupts the wider student body even more.  The experiences of students as fans of winning atheltic teams are so intense and passionate that they in too many cases overwhelm the academic ones.  

I've worked with Notre Dame alumni, a great university.  Their primary relation to the school is through its football team.  They learned their profession there, but emotionally, their formative experience was directed by Touchdown Jesus, as opposed to just Jesus.  I'd venture that many of the Lynah Faithful share a experience similar to theirs, myself included.

At the SEC, Big 10 schools it's even worse.  As are the perversions those universites must endure to keep their fans happy and their contributions flowing.

I'd probably feel differently if the hockey team were better, but maybe it's time for CU to go the way of UC, The University of Chicago.  Intercollegiate competition is an escalating arms race.  What made Cornell successful 40 years ago or even 10 will not do anymore.  If we hope to compete with Notre Dame, Michigan, BC, great universities that offer atheletic scholarships,  we must up our ante then see them when they raise. And that's not even counting the lesser academic lights who are even less constrained.

This is a very good, insightful post. I'd just add two things.

1. The low academic standards that allow athletes at factory schools to stay in school are not confined to just athletes. At most of these schools, tuition is a major source of revenue, and there is little incentive for administrators to push for high academic standards. Instead they push for "retention" and faculty "productivity" but do little to prevent, and much to encourage, lower standards as being the central way for faculty members to achieve these goals. This culture has infected all of higher education. RateMyProfessor.com even has a category for how easy a professor's courses are.

2. While all of us have connections to Cornell through sports, I don't think that's all or even the main thing for most alumni who feel connected. This forum is a biased, self-selecting sample, but I don't think even most of us have sports as the main thing. Cornell prides itself on its academic standards, and we all have fun poking at the easy A's at Harvard. Cornell is "the easiest Ivy to get into, the hardest to graduate from," and I have to think that most of us take great pride in this. We also feel pride when we read about things like our football coach landing a blue-chip recruit who asked recruiters from other schools, "I know how many other Samoans you have on your team, but how many of your players graduate majoring in civil engineering?" I think all of us agree, we'd rather maintain the academic standards and culture, even if it means winning a national championship only once or twice in our lifetimes.

[Al DeFlorio]

cu722001, good post but I disagree with a few points.

The corruption of the wider student body is, I think, overstressed, and this coming from an old fogey who thinks it's all been downhill since we stopped requiring classical languages.  And at any rate, it's nothing new.  Obsession with how the football team did long pre-dates the NC$$: "I will not permit twenty-two young men to travel 1,500 miles for the purpose of agitating a pig's bladder." -- Andrew Dixon White.

The primary bone I have to pick is with the sentence "I'd probably feel differently if the hockey team were better."  Sometimes I feel like we're in Opposite World.  People do realize that the hockey team is VERY good, don't they?  Over the last decade they have been more competitive than at any time since the Harkness Golden Age.

Dixon?  From someone who mourns the passing of classical languages?  Sacrilege.  It's Dickson.;-)

[nshapiro]

Cornell is "the easiest Ivy to get into, the hardest to graduate from," and I have to think that most of us take great pride in this.

Is this still true?  I know that my freshman year, the first thing we were told was 'look left, look right... one of you three will not make it to graduation.'  This is no longer the case.  When I compared Cornell's Freshman retention rate and 6 year graduation rates to schools my son is deciding between, I was shocked to see Cornell's numbers around 95% for freshman retention, and 90% for 6 year graduation.

[css228]

University of Chicago's unofficial motto is "Where fun goes to die." On behalf of every current student that chose Cornell specifically because it has a great balance of fun bigtime state school atmosphere and serious academic study, that's not who we are. We take our studies seriously but we still have a good time. Its like a more studious Big Ten school in a lot of ways. If I really wanted to go to a school that viewed itself like uchicago and had very little school spirit, I probably would have applied to uchicago...

[Trotsky]

Dixon?  From someone who mourns the passing of classical languages?  Sacrilege.  It's Dickson.;-)

OK, I officially suck.

[CAS]

Cornell's freshman retention and graduation numbers are now higher than those stated above, and pretty comparable to the other Ivies.

[Trotsky]

On behalf of every current student that chose Cornell specifically because it has a great balance of fun bigtime state school atmosphere and serious academic study

Um... either our ideas of bigtime state school atmosphere are very different, or, like Rick Blaine, you were "misinformed."  

(Link: the University of Arizona's annual "Jungle Party." )

[Rosey]

Dixon?  From someone who mourns the passing of classical languages?  Sacrilege.  It's Dickson.;-)

OK, I officially suck.

Hey ADW! Yo' momma's so horny that in tribute they put her name on a dorm where there's banging in every room all day and all night.

(Sorry, I struggled and still failed... I had to say something about where I lived for four years, though.)

[css228]

On behalf of every current student that chose Cornell specifically because it has a great balance of fun bigtime state school atmosphere and serious academic study

Um... either our ideas of bigtime state school atmosphere are very different, or, like Rick Blaine, you were "misinformed."  

(Link: the University of Arizona's annual "Jungle Party." )

I probably chose the wrong words, but my point stands that unlike the rest of the ivies or schools like uchicago we balance the greek party scene with a spirited athletic life, and and serious academics. I'm not trying to say we party like Arizona or PSU, (except the track team when they throw down) but I am saying that we probably have one of the best balances of state school style greek driven social scene, athletic life, and academics of any school in the country and we shouldn't because a funless vaccuum like chicago.

[Trotsky]

I dunno.  Things have changed or we traveled in different circles (both likely true), but aside from the occasional SCA event at Risley I don't remember too many moments of "party scene" at Cornell.



Artsy GDIs may simply be more studious.  

[Josh '99]

I dunno.  Things have changed or we traveled in different circles (both likely true), but aside from the occasional SCA event at Risley I don't remember too many moments of "party scene" at Cornell.



Artsy GDIs may simply be more studious.  

If you consider SCA events to be "the Cornell party scene" then you and css228 are speaking entirely different languages altogether.  :-}

[css228]

I dunno.  Things have changed or we traveled in different circles (both likely true), but aside from the occasional SCA event at Risley I don't remember too many moments of "party scene" at Cornell.



Artsy GDIs may simply be more studious.  

If you consider SCA events to be "the Cornell party scene" then you and css228 are speaking entirely different languages altogether.  :-}

Yes most of the people I know are greeks and athletes. To each their own though. Great thing about Cornell is it can be whatever you want it to be. Just like at a student at Arizona could never leave the library, I know a few students here who seem to be unable to find their way to class.

[KeithK]

As much as intercollegiate athletics exploits the atheletes, it corrupts the wider student body even more.  The experiences of students as fans of winning atheltic teams are so intense and passionate that they in too many cases overwhelm the academic ones.  

I've worked with Notre Dame alumni, a great university.  Their primary relation to the school is through its football team.  They learned their profession there, but emotionally, their formative experience was directed by Touchdown Jesus, as opposed to just Jesus.  I'd venture that many of the Lynah Faithful share a experience similar to theirs, myself included.

At the SEC, Big 10 schools it's even worse.  As are the perversions those universites must endure to keep their fans happy and their contributions flowing.

I understand the arguments about big time athletics taking advantage of athletes. But why exactly is athletics fandom "corrupting"? It helps create a community, brings enjoyment (mostly) and doesn't really have negative consequences. Are you just arguing that schools have to spend money on athletics (and exploit athletes) to keep the fans happy? Or is it more an aesthetic statement that students/alums don't appreciate academics because they focus on athletics?

From my perspective the whole business model of higher ed - relying on massive, continuing contributions from previous customers - is flawed.  But I don't see how you change that now.

[Jim Hyla]

As much as intercollegiate athletics exploits the atheletes, it corrupts the wider student body even more.  The experiences of students as fans of winning atheltic teams are so intense and passionate that they in too many cases overwhelm the academic ones.  

I've worked with Notre Dame alumni, a great university.  Their primary relation to the school is through its football team.  They learned their profession there, but emotionally, their formative experience was directed by Touchdown Jesus, as opposed to just Jesus.  I'd venture that many of the Lynah Faithful share a experience similar to theirs, myself included.

At the SEC, Big 10 schools it's even worse.  As are the perversions those universites must endure to keep their fans happy and their contributions flowing.

I understand the arguments about big time athletics taking advantage of athletes. But why exactly is athletics fandom "corrupting"? It helps create a community, brings enjoyment (mostly) and doesn't really have negative consequences. Are you just arguing that schools have to spend money on athletics (and exploit athletes) to keep the fans happy? Or is it more an aesthetic statement that students/alums don't appreciate academics because they focus on athletics?

From my perspective the whole business model of higher ed - relying on massive, continuing contributions from previous customers - is flawed.  But I don't see how you change that now.

But my problem is that in scholarship schools, too much of that money goes to the athletic department and not to the school itself. At least in the Ivys, I think most of those that donate to sports, donate more to the academic side.

[css228]

As much as intercollegiate athletics exploits the atheletes, it corrupts the wider student body even more.  The experiences of students as fans of winning atheltic teams are so intense and passionate that they in too many cases overwhelm the academic ones.  

I've worked with Notre Dame alumni, a great university.  Their primary relation to the school is through its football team.  They learned their profession there, but emotionally, their formative experience was directed by Touchdown Jesus, as opposed to just Jesus.  I'd venture that many of the Lynah Faithful share a experience similar to theirs, myself included.

At the SEC, Big 10 schools it's even worse.  As are the perversions those universites must endure to keep their fans happy and their contributions flowing.

I understand the arguments about big time athletics taking advantage of athletes. But why exactly is athletics fandom "corrupting"? It helps create a community, brings enjoyment (mostly) and doesn't really have negative consequences. Are you just arguing that schools have to spend money on athletics (and exploit athletes) to keep the fans happy? Or is it more an aesthetic statement that students/alums don't appreciate academics because they focus on athletics?

From my perspective the whole business model of higher ed - relying on massive, continuing contributions from previous customers - is flawed.  But I don't see how you change that now.

But my problem is that in scholarship schools, too much of that money goes to the athletic department and not to the school itself. At least in the Ivys, I think most of those that donate to sports, donate more to the academic side.

Not to mention people who don't need scholarships receive them all the time. Tyler Hansbrough's dad was a surgeon. I'm sure they could have afforded North Carolina's expensive OOS Tutition that costs less than Cornell's in state tuition.