The Jersey

[KeithK]

I have been a devoted Cornell hockey fan since 1968.  I didn't even notice that the jerseys were different.  I watched the players wearing them.

It's not like we're all going to root for Harvard because some idiot ordered the wrong jerseys. But it's hard to not notice the change and disappointing to see us go with a less unique style.

[ugarte]

"Laundry? We're talking about laundry? The real season's about to start and we're talking about laundry?"

- Allan Iverson, college hockey player

[Towerroad]

I like the old style better but it might be an economy move. The whole University is taking large cuts owning to the losses in the endowment and the need to offer more discounts (the proper term for financial aid) in the presence of out of control tuition and the economic meltdown.

In the end my loyalty is to the team and the players in the uniform. If it is Carnelian I am cheering for it.

[underskill]

I like the old style better but it might be an economy move. The whole University is taking large cuts owning to the losses in the endowment and the need to offer more discounts (the proper term for financial aid) in the presence of out of control tuition and the economic meltdown.

In the end my loyalty is to the team and the players in the uniform. If it is Carnelian I am cheering for it.

If that's the case, you don't take the money out of athletic's one showpiece program--leave the cheap PSP/Detroit/BU uniform templates with the women's team.  Besides, I doubt any Red Wings fans want any link to Ned Harkness on any level.

I suppose it could always be worse though.  http://uscho.teamfanshop.com/COLLEGE_Cornell_Big_Red_College_Hockey_Gear/Cornell_Big_Red_Carnelian_Hockey_Jersey

[Towerroad]

Sticking the (#1 ranked) women's team with what are perceived as inferior uniforms would probably not pass muster in the politically correct would of the University. I dislike political correctness but in is case both teams should wear the same uniform and each deserves our support.

Let's hope that when the puck drops this is a thing of the past.

[Trotsky]

both teams should wear the same uniform and each deserves our support.

Equality and all that, but the teams have historically not worn the same uniforms, so sticking the women's team with the men's kit would be just as bad as sticking the men with the women's.

It could be worse.  It has been worse.  I don't have a photo handy, but there was a dalliance in the Nethery-Tredway Era with stupendously ugly sweaters.

[Towerroad]

both teams should wear the same uniform and each deserves our support.

Equality and all that, but the teams have historically not worn the same uniforms, so sticking the women's team with the men's kit would be just as bad as sticking the men with the women's.

It could be worse.  It has been worse.  I don't have a photo handy, but there was a dalliance in the Nethery-Tredway Era with stupendously ugly sweaters.

Referring to historic precedence when talking about gender equity issues in college sports is probably not the best way to make the point. I like the idea that they wear the same uniform it is part and parcel of the Cornell Hockey Brand (although this argues for the old style for both)

[Trotsky]

both teams should wear the same uniform and each deserves our support.

Equality and all that, but the teams have historically not worn the same uniforms, so sticking the women's team with the men's kit would be just as bad as sticking the men with the women's.

It could be worse.  It has been worse.  I don't have a photo handy, but there was a dalliance in the Nethery-Tredway Era with stupendously ugly sweaters.

Referring to historic precedence when talking about gender equity issues in college sports is probably not the best way to make the point. I like the idea that they wear the same uniform it is part and parcel of the Cornell Hockey Brand (although this argues for the old style for both)

The point is their traditional style belonged to them and is "unequal" only by a retroactive application of the current fad for labeling everything traditional as insidious.

[Towerroad]

Clearly it is time to drop the puck!

[Trotsky]

Clearly.  3 days 9 hours and counting. ::cheer::

[Josh '99]

As for the jerseys, someone heard from a certain AAD that the jerseys were not a mistake but ordered intentionally that way and no one told Schafer. If that's true, it's a whole other thing...

I can easily imagine some bean counter going for this jersey type to save a few bucks.

Why would this jersey be any less expensive than the traditional Cornell jersey?

Because it's the Detroit Red Wings blank.  I'm sure there are tons of these being manufactured, compared to our unique coloring/stripe combination, which I'm sure have to be custom ordered.  Same reason why these blanks were the ones used for PSP's replicas for a while.  The closest I've seen to our usual stripings are one of the Miami Redhawks' jerseys, and even those are slightly different because the red stripe is all the way at the bottom hem.

Hmm, I suppose that's plausible.  Do we know that they (that is, what we're referring to as the "traditional" Cornell jerseys) actually do cost more, then?

[Towerroad]

As for the jerseys, someone heard from a certain AAD that the jerseys were not a mistake but ordered intentionally that way and no one told Schafer. If that's true, it's a whole other thing...

I can easily imagine some bean counter going for this jersey type to save a few bucks.

Why would this jersey be any less expensive than the traditional Cornell jersey?

Because it's the Detroit Red Wings blank.  I'm sure there are tons of these being manufactured, compared to our unique coloring/stripe combination, which I'm sure have to be custom ordered.  Same reason why these blanks were the ones used for PSP's replicas for a while.  The closest I've seen to our usual stripings are one of the Miami Redhawks' jerseys, and even those are slightly different because the red stripe is all the way at the bottom hem.

Hmm, I suppose that's plausible.  Do we know that they (that is, what we're referring to as the "traditional" Cornell jerseys) actually do cost more, then?

Let me take a stab.

I estimate that the total run of sweaters for the men, women, and faithful is on the order of 3000 per season. For runs of this length machine set up is a meaningful part of the cost equations. Making one style for men, women and fans probably yields mfg cost savings which at the wholesale level means price savings.

There is one other big cost win. The sleeves for both the home and away sweaters are the same so I suspect there is some real set up savings in the sleeve production department. Instead of making 16 sleeve styles (4 sizes, 2 sides, 2 colors combos) they only have to make 8.

So, I suspect that these cost less to make and probably cost less to buy than the more complex older style. Rest assured though they will not cost you less in the CU Store.

That being said I like the old style with the narrower elbow band and home and away sleeves better.

[Rosey]

I estimate that the total run of sweaters for the men, women, and faithful is on the order of 3000 per season. For runs of this length machine set up is a meaningful part of the cost equations. Making one style for men, women and fans probably yields mfg cost savings which at the wholesale level means price savings.

For one thing I highly doubt the total number of Cornell hockey jersies produced per year is anywhere near 3000.  That would be 3/4 of Lynah Rink buying a new jersey every year.

Secondly, and more importantly, the jersies sold to the general public other than the game-worn ones are not actual jersies.  They are not only not made the same way or are lacking features; they aren't even made of the same material.  The official game jersies are made of a complex two-layer weave that breathes well despite being heavy-gauge and highly durable.  The stuff fans buy at the games or in the campus store would turn to shreds inside of one game.  FWIW, my team buys jersies very similar to Cornell's from a Canadian company but far thinner and less durable, and those cost us $90/pc for "standard" styles, so getting a game-worn, custom-designed jersey for $125 is likely to be below cost and therefore a huge steal.

Your point that economies of scale are the reason for this, however, is likely to be spot-on if indeed cost considerations were part of the decision, and it wasn't just a mistake.  But IMO if true this is dumb: the cost of the jersies would be completely covered by auctioning off the prior year's jersies, as I guarantee an auction would net more than their cost given how fast they sell out first-come-first-served.

[Josh '99]

As for the jerseys, someone heard from a certain AAD that the jerseys were not a mistake but ordered intentionally that way and no one told Schafer. If that's true, it's a whole other thing...

I can easily imagine some bean counter going for this jersey type to save a few bucks.

Why would this jersey be any less expensive than the traditional Cornell jersey?

Because it's the Detroit Red Wings blank.  I'm sure there are tons of these being manufactured, compared to our unique coloring/stripe combination, which I'm sure have to be custom ordered.  Same reason why these blanks were the ones used for PSP's replicas for a while.  The closest I've seen to our usual stripings are one of the Miami Redhawks' jerseys, and even those are slightly different because the red stripe is all the way at the bottom hem.

Hmm, I suppose that's plausible.  Do we know that they (that is, what we're referring to as the "traditional" Cornell jerseys) actually do cost more, then?

Let me take a stab.

I estimate that the total run of sweaters for the men, women, and faithful is on the order of 3000 per season. For runs of this length machine set up is a meaningful part of the cost equations. Making one style for men, women and fans probably yields mfg cost savings which at the wholesale level means price savings.

There is one other big cost win. The sleeves for both the home and away sweaters are the same so I suspect there is some real set up savings in the sleeve production department. Instead of making 16 sleeve styles (4 sizes, 2 sides, 2 colors combos) they only have to make 8.

So, I suspect that these cost less to make and probably cost less to buy than the more complex older style. Rest assured though they will not cost you less in the CU Store.

That being said I like the old style with the narrower elbow band and home and away sleeves better.

Since you seem to have a decent handle on the practicalities of the manufacturing process, let me ask another question:  is the cost of machine setup mitigated at all by the fact that we're doing the same "special order" every year?  By which I mean, yes, your manufacturing equipment needs to be set up differently than it is to make Red Wings/BU-style sleeves, but it's the same different setup every year, as contrasted with the NHL in the 1990s where it seemed like every team was rolling out a new third jersey that would require a new manufacturing process every year.

[Jim Hyla]

Sticking the (#1 ranked) women's team with what are perceived as inferior uniforms would probably not pass muster in the politically correct would of the University. I dislike political correctness but in (th)is case both teams should wear the same uniform and each deserves our support.

Let's hope that when the puck drops this is a thing of the past.

Which, of course, is the whole point of "political correctness". Welcome to our side.:-D