Why the hate/dislike of Cornell?

[Jim Hyla]

Man, I can't believe this thread when I took so much crap for being upset that we cheered "season's over" to Harvard after the quarters. Personally, I thought that was in poor taste, because it clearly only taunted them. This cheer is at least as much about our team, as it is against them. Also considering it's a regular cheer, and not just because their season is over, I don't find it offensive. Overall, I think we treated them nicely.

[Trotsky]

If only there was a way they could stop the pain of having to listen to us chant winning team losing team.

[HeafDog]

Tradition is tradition. There was nothing wrong with what we did. We earned the victory, and we earned the right to celebrate. Should the hockey team not hoist the trophy and skate toward the glass? Should they not throw their gloves and sticks and helmets on the ice? Should they not pose for a team picture? Where do you draw the line -- it's okay to do "winning team/losing team" in all games except the championship? What about the semis? We stood and applauded Union in a sportsmanlike manner. I have no regrets and make no apologies about our conduct vis-a-vis "winning team/losing team".

So I take it you see no difference between hoisting the trophy, being joyful, and saluting your fans, which are all directed at teammates and supporters, as opposed to a taunt directed at the other side.  Really?

Jason Klump's reaction more accurately reflects the opinions of neutral observers who even more than our opponents are the object of the question about hate/dislike.  If something you do is traditionally obnoxious, it is indeed a tradition.  But it's still obnoxious non the less and generates hate and dislike.  Be arrogant, if that is your thing,  but the question posed in this thread does have certain answers that reasonable people can understand.

But, you see, that's exactly the thing. I don't really see it as much of a taunt at all. I see that cheer as almost entirely just a celebration of our victory. "There is no reality, only perception" applies extremely well here.

Look, you're talking to a guy who, albeit unfortunately, has not yet acquired RichH's ability to not care what other people think of him or the party he is with. A guy who unfortunately does sometimes veer toward the apologist end of the spectrum. A guy who actually donned an apron a couple of weeks ago. Heck, I don't even think I participated during a single one of the thirty-odd times unimaginative clowns on our side decided to trot out "Union... sucks" over the course of Saturday's game. But when I led "winning team/losing team" on Saturday (again, after having applauded Union), I didn't stand up on my seat, thinking, "Hey, let's rub it in Union's faces." No, I was thinking something along the lines of, "This is freaking sweet; I want to celebrate with my Cornell brethren with a tradition we all get a lot of enjoyment out of."

In the grand scheme of things, and compared with everything else we and other teams' fan bases do (not to mention the fact that we have been forced to clean up our act and our language over the past 15 years), that cheer is really pretty benign.

[Josh '99]

Why Princeton?

Oh, I doubt you'll ever need to root for Dartmouth in the tournament as long as Gaudet is coaching.

Why Princeton?  Because it's a country club, not a university.  Because it's a bastion of WASPy-ness that goes far beyond what even this unibrow-plucking, argyle-socks-wearin', non-self-hating WASP can take.  Because I hate that fucking double-double rotating P.

Princeton isn't any worse than Dartmouth as far as that goes, really.

(I actually kinda like the double double rotating P, but that's neither here nor there.)

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

Why Princeton?

Oh, I doubt you'll ever need to root for Dartmouth in the tournament as long as Gaudet is coaching.

Why Princeton?  Because it's a country club, not a university.  Because it's a bastion of WASPy-ness that goes far beyond what even this unibrow-plucking, argyle-socks-wearin', non-self-hating WASP can take.  Because I hate that fucking double-double rotating P.

Princeton isn't any worse than Dartmouth as far as that goes, really.

(I actually kinda like the double double rotating P, but that's neither here nor there.)

I'd just like a double-double.  And a side of fries.

MMMMM.  In-and-out Burger.

[Towerroad]

Tim
You should have been with us at the Crowne when we were waiting for the team after the game.
We cheered and congratulated every Union player as they returned. There were none of their
fans waiting for them.
Doug

I was going to comment on this as well. I'll just add the following:

As this was going on one Union fan (he was wearing a Union hockey windbreaker) who may well have been the father of a Union player (many of the Union players were arriving with their families) looked right at me as I was clapping, and said, "Classy guys. Very classy,", and patted me on the shoulder. He was definitely not being sarcastic at all. It was clear he really appreciated the fact that while we were obviously waiting there to greet and congratulate our own players, we were treating the Union players with respect.

I believe you.  And clearly you are deservedly proud of his reaction.  Why hide your light under a bushel?  Relatively few people witnessed the classiness displayed.  That other thing was put on display for the whole arena.  Think those few Union people present at the hotel will tell all the others at the arena and fix it all up?

I don't think there's anything that needs fixing. I really don't think the majority of the Union fans are going to have their impression of Cornell fans influenced very much by whether or not we did "Winning Team / Losing Team" after the game.

I do think the players and their families who were applauded by the opposing teams' fans as they came back to their hotel will remember that a whole lot more than they remember "winning team / losing team", if they were even aware of it in the first place.

You may both be right, but I am with Tim here.  It may be funny to do the taunt during the season, but it was rude and unnecessary in Albany.  We are often jerks with our cheers.  We shouldn't be jerks quite so often.

I agree with Marty. During the season when the teams are competing I have no problem with being the most obnoxious and rabid fans in hockeydom but at the end of a championship game we should leave animus aside and cheer our rivals win or lose. I know it is tough but I think it is the right thing to do unless it is Harvard....

[Josh '99]

Tim
You should have been with us at the Crowne when we were waiting for the team after the game.
We cheered and congratulated every Union player as they returned. There were none of their
fans waiting for them.
Doug

I was going to comment on this as well. I'll just add the following:

As this was going on one Union fan (he was wearing a Union hockey windbreaker) who may well have been the father of a Union player (many of the Union players were arriving with their families) looked right at me as I was clapping, and said, "Classy guys. Very classy,", and patted me on the shoulder. He was definitely not being sarcastic at all. It was clear he really appreciated the fact that while we were obviously waiting there to greet and congratulate our own players, we were treating the Union players with respect.

I believe you.  And clearly you are deservedly proud of his reaction.  Why hide your light under a bushel?  Relatively few people witnessed the classiness displayed.  That other thing was put on display for the whole arena.  Think those few Union people present at the hotel will tell all the others at the arena and fix it all up?

I don't think there's anything that needs fixing. I really don't think the majority of the Union fans are going to have their impression of Cornell fans influenced very much by whether or not we did "Winning Team / Losing Team" after the game.

I do think the players and their families who were applauded by the opposing teams' fans as they came back to their hotel will remember that a whole lot more than they remember "winning team / losing team", if they were even aware of it in the first place.

You may both be right, but I am with Tim here.  It may be funny to do the taunt during the season, but it was rude and unnecessary in Albany.  We are often jerks with our cheers.  We shouldn't be jerks quite so often.

I agree with Marty. During the season when the teams are competing I have no problem with being the most obnoxious and rabid fans in hockeydom but at the end of a championship game we should leave animus aside and cheer our rivals win or lose. I know it is tough but I think it is the right thing to do unless it is Harvard....

That's a fair point, but I think what people have been saying upthread is that "winning team /losing team" isn't "animus", it's just part of the routine.

[billhoward]

We're Ivy League assholes in their view and the first two words render the third redundant, to them. Just as teens see no difference between an adult who's 40 and another who's 70 (actually, they say they can, but why bother), they see us and Harvard as the same pondscum who'll move their dad's blue collar job offshore and ruin their lives. We caused the financial meltdown, not them. We marry the trophy wives and live in Larchmont. IIRC correctly, that was the prevailing view of Penn in the 1979 tournament when Michigan State finally deflated the Ivy League bumble and that was the origin of the cheer, "That's all right, that's okay, you're gonna pump our gas some day."

All of which might be puzzling to a Kentucky student who considers Kentucky to be the premier (at least public) school in Tennnessee and all of a sudden in the company of Cornell or Wofford or Cal they find they're not flying first class but premier coach. If we taunt back, it needs to be erudite. They could punch us out in a bar, but if the weapon of choice is words, the Wilcats are dead.

[Trotsky]

Tradition is tradition. There was nothing wrong with what we did. We earned the victory, and we earned the right to celebrate. Should the hockey team not hoist the trophy and skate toward the glass? Should they not throw their gloves and sticks and helmets on the ice? Should they not pose for a team picture? Where do you draw the line -- it's okay to do "winning team/losing team" in all games except the championship? What about the semis? We stood and applauded Union in a sportsmanlike manner. I have no regrets and make no apologies about our conduct vis-a-vis "winning team/losing team".

So I take it you see no difference between hoisting the trophy, being joyful, and saluting your fans, which are all directed at teammates and supporters, as opposed to a taunt directed at the other side.  Really?

Jason Klump's reaction more accurately reflects the opinions of neutral observers who even more than our opponents are the object of the question about hate/dislike.  If something you do is traditionally obnoxious, it is indeed a tradition.  But it's still obnoxious non the less and generates hate and dislike.  Be arrogant, if that is your thing,  but the question posed in this thread does have certain answers that reasonable people can understand.

But, you see, that's exactly the thing. I don't really see it as much of a taunt at all. I see that cheer as almost entirely just a celebration of our victory. "There is no reality, only perception" applies extremely well here.

Look, you're talking to a guy who, albeit unfortunately, has not yet acquired RichH's ability to not care what other people think of him or the party he is with. A guy who unfortunately does sometimes veer toward the apologist end of the spectrum. A guy who actually donned an apron a couple of weeks ago. Heck, I don't even think I participated during a single one of the thirty-odd times unimaginative clowns on our side decided to trot out "Union... sucks" over the course of Saturday's game. But when I led "winning team/losing team" on Saturday (again, after having applauded Union), I didn't stand up on my seat, thinking, "Hey, let's rub it in Union's faces." No, I was thinking something along the lines of, "This is freaking sweet; I want to celebrate with my Cornell brethren with a tradition we all get a lot of enjoyment out of."

In the grand scheme of things, and compared with everything else we and other teams' fan bases do (not to mention the fact that we have been forced to clean up our act and our language over the past 15 years), that cheer is really pretty benign.

Well said.

[Trotsky]

On any hierarchy, the line between resented and resenting is "us."

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

We're Ivy League assholes in their view and the first two words render the third redundant, to them. Just as teens see no difference between an adult who's 40 and another who's 70 (actually, they say they can, but why bother), they see us and Harvard as the same pondscum who'll move their dad's blue collar job offshore and ruin their lives. We caused the financial meltdown, not them. We marry the trophy wives and live in Larchmont. IIRC correctly, that was the prevailing view of Penn in the 1979 tournament when Michigan State finally deflated the Ivy League bumble and that was the origin of the cheer, "That's all right, that's okay, you're gonna pump our gas some day."

All of which might be puzzling to a Kentucky student who considers Kentucky to be the premier (at least public) school in Tennnessee and all of a sudden in the company of Cornell or Wofford or Cal they find they're not flying first class but premier coach. If we taunt back, it needs to be erudite. They could punch us out in a bar, but if the weapon of choice is words, the Wilcats are dead.

[Point to appropriate players] Graduating...Not graduating...Graduating...

[Towerroad]

We're Ivy League assholes in their view and the first two words render the third redundant, to them. Just as teens see no difference between an adult who's 40 and another who's 70 (actually, they say they can, but why bother), they see us and Harvard as the same pondscum who'll move their dad's blue collar job offshore and ruin their lives. We caused the financial meltdown, not them. We marry the trophy wives and live in Larchmont. IIRC correctly, that was the prevailing view of Penn in the 1979 tournament when Michigan State finally deflated the Ivy League bumble and that was the origin of the cheer, "That's all right, that's okay, you're gonna pump our gas some day."

All of which might be puzzling to a Kentucky student who considers Kentucky to be the premier (at least public) school in Tennnessee and all of a sudden in the company of Cornell or Wofford or Cal they find they're not flying first class but premier coach. If we taunt back, it needs to be erudite. They could punch us out in a bar, but if the weapon of choice is words, the Wilcats are dead.

[Point to appropriate players] Graduating...Not graduating...Graduating...

Very nice!

[Josh '99]

How about Klump's comment at the end of the ECAC blog today on USCHO? ::rolleyes::


Jason Klump:
Cornell fans can't win with class, as usual.  Chanting "winning team, losing team" as they point back and forth.

By the way, that Klump guy posts on the USCHO Forum in addition to writing for them, and he's a douche, so personally I'm especially disinclined to care what he thinks.

[ugarte]

We're Ivy League assholes in their view and the first two words render the third redundant, to them. Just as teens see no difference between an adult who's 40 and another who's 70 (actually, they say they can, but why bother), they see us and Harvard as the same pondscum who'll move their dad's blue collar job offshore and ruin their lives. We caused the financial meltdown, not them. We marry the trophy wives and live in Larchmont. IIRC correctly, that was the prevailing view of Penn in the 1979 tournament when Michigan State finally deflated the Ivy League bumble and that was the origin of the cheer, "That's all right, that's okay, you're gonna pump our gas some day."

All of which might be puzzling to a Kentucky student who considers Kentucky to be the premier (at least public) school in Tennnessee and all of a sudden in the company of Cornell or Wofford or Cal they find they're not flying first class but premier coach. If we taunt back, it needs to be erudite. They could punch us out in a bar, but if the weapon of choice is words, the Wilcats are dead.

[Point to appropriate players] Graduating...Not graduating...Graduating...

Very nice!

I'll bet John Wall makes more without a degree than John Jacques does with...

[Beeeej]

I bet some of you folks think "third place team, fourth place team" during the consy is classless too.

I'm shocked - SHOCKED - by such a chant toward the end of a consy.