Lacrosse season approaching

[KeithK]

[quote ugarte][quote CornellFan]http://ivyleaguesports.com/article.asp?intID=6943[/quote]
Listen closely, people. Whatever you do, DO NOT TELL KEITHK ABOUT THIS.[/quote]
ROFL! Too late.

Yes, I hate the idea in principle. That's a given. I'll spare you all the pontificating though (this time).

It seems like Chris is right that this will play right into the NCAA selection criteria and most likely improve Ivy teams ratings.It's sad that the tournament selection process is so f---ed up that the Ivies feel the need to emulate the ACC.

[Trotsky]

[quote Chris '03]Wow.

In short, starting in 2010 lax (both men and women) will have a 4 team ivy playoff for the Ivy bid to the NCAAs (but not Ivy title).

If they're willing to do this during finals in the spring what next? Basketball tournament, football playoffs?

I hope this doesn't come at the expense of two nonconference games on the schedule or start date or some nonsense. I presume it won't since only 4 teams are involved.[/quote]

Very cool.  Hopefully, hoops will be next.  I'd go to, say, MSG to see Cornell play for the Ivy Championship.  Football... well, probably never, unless they would further allow the champion to go on to the DI-AA tourney.  I'd lose a NC RS game for that.  The Ivies got along fine with 9 games forever.

[Chris '03]

[quote Trotsky][quote Chris '03]

If they're willing to do this during finals in the spring what next? Basketball tournament, football playoffs?
[/quote]

Very cool.  Hopefully, hoops will be next.  I'd go to, say, MSG to see Cornell play for the Ivy Championship.  Football... well, probably never, unless they would further allow the champion to go on to the DI-AA tourney.  I'd lose a NC RS game for that.  The Ivies got along fine with 9 games forever.[/quote]

I meant I-AA playoffs, not an Ivy football playoff. And I think the Palestra is a more likely home to an Ivy hoops tournament than MSG, who will be busy with the Big East around then.

The more I think about this, the more I'm disappointed. Here's Tierney on the issue:

"Having a tournament will help Ivy League teams with their strength of schedule and their RPI, Just as importantly, it will be a great showcase for Ivy League lacrosse, and I'm sure Ivy lacrosse players will look at it as a highlight of their careers."

This is shameless bowing to and legitimizing a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE selection system. If tie breaking were really the issue, they'd just institute a playoff procedure like that which exists in basketball now. I would have preferred to see the Ivy coaches come out together in favor of fixing the system rather than this. What if they threatened to stop scheduling non-conference games and went to a 12 game Ivy schedule where everyone played each other twice? There'd be no way to rate the Ivies against anyone else and it would be hard to deny an 11-1 or 10-2 Princeton or Cornell team that finishes second in the Ivies and has a history of national success a post-season bid.

Furthermore, what does this do to the regular season CU/PU game in a year where they're 1-2? Sure they'll want the Ivy title, but wouldn't the new playoff game be more important? That's the one you need to win. Just seems to cheapen it. But at least it will probably be on some TV station no one gets.

[KeithK]

[quote Chris '03]
Furthermore, what does this do to the regular season CU/PU game in a year where they're 1-2? Sure they'll want the Ivy title, but wouldn't the new playoff game be more important? That's the one you need to win. Just seems to cheapen it.[/quote]
Of course, it cheapens it!  That's... wait, sorry.  I said I wouldn't pontificate.

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote KeithK][quote Chris '03]
Furthermore, what does this do to the regular season CU/PU game in a year where they're 1-2? Sure they'll want the Ivy title, but wouldn't the new playoff game be more important? That's the one you need to win. Just seems to cheapen it.[/quote]
Of course, it cheapens it!  That's... wait, sorry.  I said I wouldn't pontificate.[/quote]
I'm with Keith on this one (and Chris, whose postings I like more every day).  I think it stinks.  If they want a playoff to break a tie (like last year), I'm fine with it.  Works for basketball, would work for lacrosse.  This is just a jerry-rig.  Maybe they could have the top two Ivy teams play each other two or three times so they could raise their strength of schedule.

The NCAA selection and seeding criteria are lousy.  Let's focus on getting them fixed, instead.

[Ben Rocky '04]

[quote Chris '03]
If they're willing to do this during finals in the spring what next? Basketball tournament, football playoffs?
[/quote]

Call me an old curmudgeon, but I like being from the only D1 conference that doesn't have playoffs for hoops.  I'm all for a football postseason, but they should stay away from conference playoffs for basketball and the like.

[heykb]

I agree with those of you who want to fix the NCAA selection process. You are right.

Still, I think it is smart to game the system as it exists. Besides the fact that others game the system and there is nothing unethical about it, it also may help to expose the absurdity in the existing selection mechanism.

And who knows, there may be some compelling on-the-field competition as a result of having the tourney.

Karl

[RichH]

Better yet...let's have a "SUPER DUPER IVY POWERHOUSE SERIES" where Cornell plays Princeton in a best of 7 series at the end of the conference tournament.  Tierney and Tambroni could completely throw the tournament to let a 3rd ivy in and just completely make a mockery of it all, whilst thumbing our noses at the ACC as we both climb the ladder of SOS/RPI on each other's backs.

[KeithK]

[quote heykb]Besides the fact that others game the system and there is nothing unethical about it, it also may help to expose the absurdity in the existing selection mechanism.[/quote]
Isn't gaming the system inherently unethical?  The fact that something is permitted by the rules doesn't make it ethical.

[JasonN95]

[quote KeithK][quote heykb]Besides the fact that others game the system and there is nothing unethical about it, it also may help to expose the absurdity in the existing selection mechanism.[/quote]
Isn't gaming the system inherently unethical?  The fact that something is permitted by the rules doesn't make it ethical.[/quote]

If one was exploiting an unintended deficiency that others in the "system" were unaware of, I'd say yes. But here it is patently obvious to anyone following lacrosse how the system works and has for some time and yet no one has taken an steps to fix it. We're at the point were the lack of effort to change it leads one to conclude this is how the people in the system want it to be, so now your just "playing by the rules". I don't love that, but I also don't want the Ivies to do nothing and keep letting themselves be disadvantaged by the system.

[DeltaOne81]

[quote JasonN95]
If one was exploiting an unintended deficiency that others in the "system" were unaware of, I'd say yes. But here it is patently obvious to anyone following lacrosse how the system works and has for some time and yet no one has taken an steps to fix it. We're at the point were the lack of effort to change it leads one to conclude this is how the people in the system want it to be, so now your just "playing by the rules". I don't love that, but I also don't want the Ivies to do nothing and keep letting themselves be disadvantaged by the system.[/quote]

I'm with Jason. The committee is fully aware and approving of the fact (or otherwise willfully ignorant) that their system weights SOS extremely high. They are fully aware (or, ditto) that it allows strong conferences to make insular schedules and up their tourney chances.

I actually emailed one of the committee members once, with a whole description of the fact that their criteria are SoS, 75% SoS, and strongly SoS, and, I got a reply! basically saying "yeah, SoS is important".

Screw 'em. I'd be for the super-duper series too.

[TimV]

[quote DeltaOne81]

By the way, anyone realize the name of Army's lax field?
http://www.goarmysports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=11100&KEY=&ATCLID=324142[/quote]

Actually, Army plays most of its home games at Michie Stadium, where they play football.  The Cornell game is at Michie.

[heykb]

Add me to the Jason vote. This is exactly how I see it.

Karl

[Scersk '97]

[quote Chris '03]By theoretically seeing a good princeton team twice, Cornell's t-10 sos improves. Thus, it can continue to play local rivals like binghamton, colgate, and hobart (and bad ivy teams!) without as strong tourney repercussions.[/quote]

Given that the tournament will be held on the "season's last weekend," won't this actually put one of these games in jeopardy?¹  I think we're essentially forced to give up a non-conference game for these tournament shenanigans. Binghamton would probably be the game that goes bye-bye.

[mnagowski]

Couldn't we just play Binghamton mid-week?