Very RUDE and Ignorant Fans!

[perdon't]

from another standing section G grad student:

The bottom line is, the grad students standing in the front 10 or so rows of G bought their tickets in a student section.  We expect to stand, like all the other student sections.  The upper rows in G were made available to the public, and thus I agree they are correct to expect to sit, like all the other public sections.  

I think we are all in agreement that the ticket office/athletic department is at fault.  The only reason we were taking a stand (um, pun intended, I guess) is because we were repeatedly told by the people behind us that we were not in a student section because they had bought public season tickets.  Well, I 'did my time in the line' and what I can tell you is that those tickets in the rows behind us in G were reserved for grad students. They had a big piece of poster board with all the seats available for grad students, and those seats included G from bottom to top in the half nearest F.  However, the grad student tickets did not sell out, and that's the reason those seats were made available to the public.

I do think it's offensive to refer to me as ignorant when I bought a ticket in what was originally designated as a student section and tell me I was not in a student section.  

Now, we are anxiously waiting to resolve this issue Monday.  We will talk to the ticket office and alert them of the problem.  We have been told that undergrad seats in E also did not sell out, and if that's the case we will happily trade in our G tickets for seats in E.  Problem solved.  If we cannot get seats in E, then we will tell the ticket office that they need to make a decision:  either students in G can stand and the public seats have to accept that (and the ushers will have to be made aware of this decision) OR we will be told that we are not allowed to stand in G and we will have to accept that.  If the standing-prohibited option is picked, then I will request that I be allowed to turn in my season tickets and get a refund, since I am not getting the hockey experience I expected when I purchased my student season tickets.  If the standing-allowed option is picked, I think the public seat holders should also request a full refund because they are being forced to stand or not see the rink, which is not the hockey experience they paid for.

[sen '08]

[quote perdon't]If the standing-prohibited option is picked, then I will request that I be allowed to turn in my season tickets and get a refund, since I am not getting the hockey experience I expected when I purchased my student season tickets.  If the standing-allowed option is picked, I think the public seat holders should also request a full refund because they are being forced to stand or not see the rink, which is not the hockey experience they paid for.[/quote]

Oh how the fandom has fallen.  The fact that you would demand a refund and give up season tickets shows that you care very little about Cornell hockey.  

I, personally, gained from the fact that G did not sell out as my alumna sister and I were able to get tickets this year after she had been on the list for three years.  Now, the two of us would rather stand as recent alumni, but we sit because people behind us sit. And we would NOT give up our season tickets just for something as petty as standing.

[sah67]

[quote perdon't]d that we are not allowed to stand in G and we will have to accept that.  If the standing-prohibited option is picked, then I will request that I be allowed to turn in my season tickets and get a refund, since I am not getting the hockey experience I expected when I purchased my student season tickets.  If the standing-allowed option is picked, I think the public seat holders should also request a full refund because they are being forced to stand or not see the rink, which is not the hockey experience they paid for.[/quote]

Really?  Cornell hockey just isn't worth watching if you can't stand up?  I assume you think that doing your time in "the line" makes you a dedicated fan too?

The Cornell team was the one in the white and red jerseys in case you were wondering about that during the game.
::smashfreak::

[Townie]

I find it unsettling that those standing can't be a little more considerate of the folks behind them.  All this talk of expectations and rights and who's at fault.  What about the responsibilities we have to our fellow citizens?  Remember common courtesy?  We're very quick to place our self-interests above all else and ignore what's fair...and "right".  I wonder how a stander would view it (no pun) if it were their parent, sibling, friend, etc., whose view was impeded.  What opinion would you hold if YOU were seated??  Would you be so quick to accept the point of view that the desire to stand comes ahead of that which you purchased?

As has been said earlier, the right thing to do would have been to exercise respect and courtesy to those behind you and discuss the issue later with Gene.  After all, those seated were not party to your transaction with Cornell.  

Bottom line:  those who wouldn't sit had the opportunity to make the world "a better place" by spreading goodwill, to live impeccably.  Instead, some placed self-interest ahead of that.  A blown opportunity....

[DeltaOne81]

While no details have been shared, you tend to get back the respect you show. While I am among those who believe the students probably should have just sat, if Skip is who people seem to believe he is, it sounds like rather than treating the students as reasonable adults and trying to calmly work out an understanding, rather than turning to ugly and insulting language.

I was not there, I do not know what happens, but I have seen plenty of times in the public where - despite the fact that you catch more flies with honey - someone who is upset decides the best approach is to be sarcastic and insulting, and the situation always degrades promptly from there. Making the other party defensive and offended is just asking for continued troubles.

You can be right, and yet act wrongly, at the same time. From the little information we have on here, that sounds like a likely situation.

[Skipperboat]

I hope that common sense  resolves this issue. When I purchased my season tickets, which by the way, I tried to obtain in sections L to O. I was told by the ticket office that basically my only choice was in section G! I asked if this was a seated town section or a student standing section, and I was told by Ian in the ticket office that it is a "townie"section, he even took me out there to my seat, which was very nice.The point is, I was told by the ticket office that this is a "seated" section. In Ref. to Tom Tone, I addressed the issue to them about sitting down in a very nice manner, that myself and the people around me could NOT see the action around the goal in front of us, we Missed the first 2 goals of the game! I allowed security to resolve this, NOT arguing! Let's ALL get along and support the team, that's what we're there for! I didn't just "show up for the game", I've been going for at least a dozen years or more, normally always sitting in or around the blue lines.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote DeltaOne81]I was not there, I do not know what happens, but I have seen plenty of times in the public where - despite the fact that you catch more flies with honey - someone who is upset decides the best approach is to be sarcastic and insulting, and the situation always degrades promptly from there. Making the other party defensive and offended is just asking for continued troubles.

You can be right, and yet act wrongly, at the same time. From the little information we have on here, that sounds like a likely situation.[/quote]

Sounds like that applies here as well.

[upperdeck]

I wouldnt exactly call section O a seated section either.. between visitors like Colgate who like to stand and the bands that obstruct views..
if people are going to complain about a cornell fan standing what will they be doing when the clarkson tuba sits in front of them or the drum sets takes up your seats..

[DeltaOne81]

Skip, its unfortunate that the ticket office would tell you that. G has traditionally been a student section. As student tickets have not been selling out, the remainders have gone to townies.

I suppose they are not strictly 'lying' by saying its a 'townie section', because it is... now... partially. But its a lie of omission at best.

To give the benefit of the doubt, Ian may have simply been unaware, but if that's the case he should not have been talking without the full information.


Hopefully this can be resolved - if there indeed seats open in E & F - by moving those who wish to stand to those locations.


Seems the ticket office have reaped what they've sewn, by telling different groups what they knew each wanted to hear. Perhaps they've been inspired by the election year.

[billhoward]

When there are only Cornell fans on eLynah and we run out of useful things to discuss, Cornell fan turns against Cornell fan over tangential things such as whether it's okay to stand in a seating section at Lynah. Rich S serves a useful function by uniting Cornell fans in a common goal, to wit making Rich's life miserable whenever he posts a logical comment (it has happened) and even more miserable when he posts of his more routine comments. Please come back, Rich, we miss you.

Kudos to the peacemakers who said it must all be the fault of the athletics department. They make a great punching bag. Plus, if the section really is meant to be a seated section, why didn't the dept. make that known? Lord knows, they warn you about every other kind of behavior in Lynah.

[ftyuv]

Btw, as I read this, I can't help but remember the ECAC championships in 2005.  I was in the Cornell student section, and we stood.  But at some point (I forget when, but I would guess near the beginning of the game), a handicapped man sat in the handicap-accessible spot at the top of our column of seats.  The students at the top rows politely sat so that this man could see the game, and they also told the students in front of them.  Those students sat and told the guys in front of them, and within a couple of minutes we were all sitting;  I don't recall anyone making a big stink of it.  We all took it a priori that even though it's more fun to stand, it's also important not to be dickishly obstinate about it.

For his part, the man was very grateful and let us know that we could stand for the last two minutes.  We were up 3-1 by then, so he was nice enough to let us whippersnappers have a couple minutes of gleeful, all-out, standing ovation to see the game out.  And I know that all my friends and I were very grateful to him for that.

I guess this anecdote goes to show two things.  First, if people are nice about it, there's no reason you can't come up with compromise.  And secondly, I am now old enough to spout "when I was your age" memories.

[nr53]

[quote DeltaOne81]... despite the fact that you catch more flies with honey... [/quote]


http://xkcd.com/357/

[KeithK]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote KeithK]It's also wrong for the sitters to to take an unbending attitude of "this is my seat and I'm going to sit right here" and then toss comments about being rude.[/quote]
Huh?  It isn't clear to me why it's "wrong" for a sitter to feel this way.  If someone buys a seat, has someone standing in front of him so he can't see the game, why shouldn't he think that's rude and speak accordingly?  If the ticket office screwed this up in allocating seats to students and non-students, then the person standing should sit, allow the person behind him to watch the game that he's paid to see, and deal with the ticket office later to get it resolved.  What's the sitter supposed to do?  Quietly stare at the standing person's behind for two-plus hours and then go home?[/quote]
Al, to be clear I don't think it's unreasonable to want to sit and watch the game. It is, however, Lynah rink where it has been accepted practice for a long tiem and section G is or has been a student section. The right response is to try to work something out with the folks around you so everyone can enjoy the game. Approach it with a spirit of compromise rather than "this is my seat and you must adjust to my desires".

I haven't had to have this fight at Lynah (I was always in B when I was there) but have at road games where townies/sitters sometimes refuse to shift even a couple seats to let students/standers congregate and stand.

[KeithK]

[quote sah67][quote perdon't]d that we are not allowed to stand in G and we will have to accept that.  If the standing-prohibited option is picked, then I will request that I be allowed to turn in my season tickets and get a refund, since I am not getting the hockey experience I expected when I purchased my student season tickets.  If the standing-allowed option is picked, I think the public seat holders should also request a full refund because they are being forced to stand or not see the rink, which is not the hockey experience they paid for.[/quote]

Really?  Cornell hockey just isn't worth watching if you can't stand up?  I assume you think that doing your time in "the line" makes you a dedicated fan too?
[/quote]
I think you're being a little quick to judge.  Keep in mind that not all of us were big hockey fans before coming to Cornell.  I first started to go to ganes simply for the "hockey experience" that I'd heard so much about.  That's what first roped me in.  If not for that I wouldn't have turned into the kind of idiot who is still posting on hockey forums ten years after graduating.

Yes, many of the longtime fans on here would want to continue to go to games to watch/support Cornell hockey even if the rink staff forced us to sit on our hands utterly silent.  But it takes time (and/or pre-existing love of hockey) to develop that kind of interest.

[Rosey]

[quote KeithK]ten years after graduating.[/quote]
That was #2, right? ;-)