Just in case you missed it...

Started by Mark, December 10, 2002, 10:09:52 AM

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Mark

BU fan

jason

Mark, thanks, I had not seen that. It's a pretty good article, although N. Michigan will be mighty upset to learn that the '91 NCAA title went to Harvard. ;-)

gwm3

Too bad an otherwise pretty good article had to be defaced with a picture of Mark Mazzoleni.

RichS

Nice article but I have to disagree, at least in part, with Schaeffer's assertion that the scholarship schools put "doubts in the minds" of recruits they are wooing.   (The comment about being your own admissions office and financial aid office is also rather humerous.)

At Clarkson, for one, which I know about fairly well, and likely at least at some of the other ECAC non-Ivies, there is enough tradition (let's NOT say "mystique"...:-D) and other positives, that the recruiter can sell the school on its merits and does not need to resort to being negative about another institution.

Besides which, most of these kids have done at least some research on their own by talking to others who have gone before them, etc, and know quite a bit about the schools they're considering.   In most cases, their aware enough notto be swayed by negative stuff about other schools.

Al DeFlorio

Schafer's comment about admissions and financial aid ("To me, there's no tougher job than an Ivy League assistant coach. I worked at a scholarship school, and it's easy. You're your own admissions boards and your own financial aid board.") is dead spot on.  Anyone who tells you differently is simply in denial--and how many times have we heard that song before.

Al DeFlorio '65

ugarte

I can't speak to Clarkson specifically, RichS, and it may be that the Clarkson program is purer than Ivory soap, but I would think that it is natural to try and run down your rivals on the recruiting trail.  I don't think that Schafer meant any offense by it (and may have been sort-of confessing to doing the same thing at WMU).


RichS

Its really an over-simplification on Schaefer's part, perhaps to make his point more strongly.  I don't doubt that recruiting at an Ivy is difficult, and we know it has its "non-scholarship" challenges but...to say its "easy" at a scholarship school is not "dead spot on" in the slightest!  To say so is absurd.

The notion that a recruiter or a head coach at a non Ivy, ECAC scholarship school can circumvent the  Admissions and, Financial Aid departments as some kind of a one man show is inaccurate.   I'm not claiming that Clarkson's program is "purer than Ivory snow" and I never have, but then neither are the Ivy programs in this regard...as we all know...and should admit to!

What I do know factually from my Clarkson experience is that there are often questions, issues, etc regarding aid and admissions that inviolve plenty of other people, including alumni, beyond the coaching staff.  I would think it's much the same at the other non Ivy ECAC schools.

Al DeFlorio

Let's just say at some schools it's more "easy" than others.;-)

Remember, Mike's non-Ivy recruiting experience was at a non-ECAC school.

Al DeFlorio '65

RichS

I agree with that.  It's the ECAC schools I'm most familiar with.  And I assure you that it's not "easy" recruiting at Clarkson.

Josh '99

RichS wrote:
QuoteAnd I assure you that it's not "easy" recruiting at Clarkson.
I'd believe that.  I mean, you have to convince a recruit to spend four years in Potsdam.  :-D

"They do all kind of just blend together into one giant dildo."
-Ben Rocky 04

Adam \'01

Amen Josh.  You took the words right out of my mouth.

jeh25

RichS wrote:
QuoteI agree with that.  It's the ECAC schools I'm most familiar with.  And I assure you that it's not "easy" recruiting at Clarkson.

Being primarily an engineering school, I think we'd all be willing to stipulate to that...even Al, even when coming from you, Rich.  ::rolleyes::

But seriously, I think Al's comment was looking more broadly at D1 hockey as a whole, rather than a slight aimed at scholarship, non-Ivy ECAC programs because, in the end, even if they aren't Ivy caliber, the vast majority of ECAC schools are head and shoulders above most of the rest of the D1 programs, academically.

Moreover, while I don't think other ECAC schools would knock the Ivies in terms of workload during recruiting, I'm not as willing to conceed that assistant coaches in other leagues wouldn't. Personally, I think you should always go to the most selective school that accepts you. But not everyone looks at it that way. You don't think a BC or Michigan recruit for whom Cornell or Harvard are a reach but still has a shot at being accepted are reminded by an assistant coach about "how hard it will be to balance schoolwork with D1 athletics?"

Maybe not the best example, but I can't help but think of my brother-in-law. He was recruited by Miami, Nebraska and Syracuse, among others, to play offensive tackle. He ended up choosing Syracuse in spite of it being a lesser program footballwise because it was a better education even though he would actually need to work for his grades (at least compared to Nebraska and Miami.)  At 18 years old, I can see a lot of guys choosing to go the easy route, particularly if you thought you we gonna go pro and not need your degree. (The postscript on my brother-in-law is that he quit football in spite of being a NFL prospect after having 2 separate season ending injuries, both of which he came back from. He is now an auditor with KPMG. )

Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team... :(

RichS

Right...and that's so much more difficult than convincing a kid to spend 4 years in Ithaca.   ::rolleyes::

Actually, for a lot of the recruits, being in Potsdam, or Canton, is a big plus since they are that much closer to home, specifically, the Ottawa and Toronto areas.

Al DeFlorio

John E Hayes '98 '00 wrote:
QuoteBut seriously, I think Al's comment was looking more broadly at D1 hockey as a whole, rather than a slight aimed at scholarship, non-Ivy ECAC programs because, in the end, even if they aren't Ivy caliber, the vast majority of ECAC schools are head and shoulders above most of the rest of the D1 programs, academically.
Exactly right, John.

My sense is Rich went too far in one direction in pooh-poohing Mike's statement and I went too far in the other rebutting Rich's.  Seems to me we're in tune on this issue now.

The admissions/aid situation will always be an obstacle for the ECAC to overcome in maintaining (regaining?) competitiveness.

Al DeFlorio '65

gwm3

Wow Josh, I had typed in almost the exact same thing, but decided not to post it to give our friend from the North Country a little break.  Always nice to have someone else who's willing to say what everyone else is thinking.  ;-)