Just in case you missed it...

[Jeff Hardgrove \'01]

Alright, so I just finally read the nhl.com article...  

I didn't realize Murray was on Long Island for a couple years before college, anybody know where on the Island?

[Greg Berge]

> but we need the Harvards of the world to be there."
> --Mark Mazzoleni

If the objection is primarily to this quote, it exactly mirrors what Mazzoleni said in the pregame before the Cornell game earlier this year.  There he said that the league needs its traditional powers like Harvard and Cornell to be strong because the intensification of these rivalries allows all ECAC teams to gain in exposure and stature.

Note that Coach Schafer agreed with him 100%.  I've heard this said in many sports about traditional rivals over the years, and I've heard every Cornell coach say it except for Coach McCutcheon, who tried from the beginning to play down the importance of the Harvard games (and we all know how well that worked out).

I don't know whether Mazzoleni is a jerk, but I do know that he and Schafer appear to be working together to improve the cache of Ivy hockey in particular and ECAC hockey in general.  I wouldn't accuse him of hubris for the above quotation at least, since it's more of a cliche than anything else.

[littleredfan]

I believe he had relatives that lived there, so I think he lived with them and attended private school (Portledge School?) while playing for Apple Core, which was also Ryan's old team.

[RichS]

Greg,

That partial qoute was preceded by his referring to Clarkson, Slu, and Vermont (I think) having done "yeoman work....BUT".  The implication is that the ECAC is better off when "the Harvards" and presumably "the Cornells" are at the top of the league.  I gather thats what you were interpreting him to mean.

Frankly, I don't see the validity in that.  I'd say that Clarkson and Slu are just as much "traditional powers" within the ECAC as anyone else.  If he's concerned about the standing and image of the ECAC in the college hockey world, the issues are elsewhere...and improving image, etc isn't going to depend on Harvard or cornell winning more titles than the others.

Mazz needs to take off the Crimson tinted glasses.

[jtwcornell91]

I'm with Rich.  Clarkson is nothing if not a traditional ECAC power.  Saying it's better for the league to have Harvard at the top than Clarkson is like saying the CCHA is better off when Michigan rather than Lake State is making noise in the NCAAs.

[Will]

Maybe it's more of an Ivy League thing than an ECAC thing.  Ivy teams play less games throughout the year, and everyone knows that, so Harvard and Cornell (and of course the other four Ivies) have that added cross to bear when proving themselves on the national stage.  What's good for the Ivies is certainly good for the ECAC as a whole--the fact that Ivy teams are currently dominating the ECAC standings (except for Princeton...damn you, pull your own weight! :-P ) can only help the ECAC gain recognition, I believe.

(Note that as I make this post, I am going on only a few hours of interrupted sleep and I'm in the midst of having a fight with my girlfriend, so if this isn't coherent, I apologize.)

[jtwcornell91]

Ivies at the top of the ECAC is certainly good for the league in on regard: it means we don't have to listen to the nonsense about the Ivies holding down potential Hockey East powerhouses like Clarkson and Vermont. ::rolleyes::

[RichS]

Yeah right...the day Clarkson moves to Hockey East, I'll be a millionaire.

Seriously though, how is the ECAC any better off if Ivies dominate?  The league hardly suffered when UVM, Slu, and Clarkson were at the top, and also Colgate for awhile.

The general greater name recognition attached to Ivies doesn't extend to college hockey, as far as I can tell.

That msg was pretty coherent...me thinks you need to pay more attention to that squabble with your girlfriend! ;-)

[CowbellGuy]

The league doesn't suffer when the Clarksons and SLUs and UVMs are at the top, but when that happens there is always a segment of the unwashed masses that starts spouting crap about the Ivies holding the ECAC back. At least when the Ivies are at the top, you don't hear that. That's all he was saying.

[Will]

Thank you, Age, for clarifying my point.


[Q]That msg was pretty coherent...me thinks you need to pay more attention to that squabble with your girlfriend! [/Q]
I was already in the middle of composing that post when the fight started, Rich.  AIM just isn't the proper battlefield in which to have a lovers' quarrel. :`(

[Adam \'01]

College hockey should be nice to the Ivies.

To also quote Saved By The Bell (the best show ever!):
"Class of 2003, Be kind to geeks, nerds and dweebs. Ten years from now, they'll be the ones with all the money!" - Screech

(Video time capsule episode)

[kaelistus]

Jason, assuming the subjective rankings at the current time define strength of schedule (which I strongly disagree with):

Teams Cornell has beaten that were ranked at the time of game:
Harvard, Ohio State, BU (twice), Brown.

Teams Harvard has beaten that were ranked at the time of game:


Both schools have Maine on their schedule coming up. So what's your point?

[Greg Berge]

RichS,

Here's what I'm assuming.

Mazz: "The ECAC is better off when Harvard is winning, because the name recognition brings more respect to the league."

Morris/Palmer/whoever: "The ECAC is better off when Clarkson is winning, because the continuing presence of traditional powers in the tourny from year to year brings more respect to the league."

Quesnelle: "The ECAC is better off when Princeton is winning, because spreading the spoils around brings more respect to the league."

Taylor: "Huh?  What?  Gridlock!!!"