Harvard 2 @ Cornell 3 postgame thread (11/10/06)

[Jim Hyla]

[quote KeithK][quote schoaff]After Kennedy broke out of the zone all that was between him and the goal was Harvard's McCafferty who was caught completely flat footed as Kennedy blew by him. Wonder what he was thinking.[/quote]Kennedy wasn't breaking out of the zone.  He was coming from the bench replacing Bitz who had just gotten out of the box.  It's possible that McCafferty didn't see Kennedy (or at least not quickly enough to react) so he started for the puck and was caught flat footed.[/quote]Actually you both are somewhat right. He was coming on, but was inside the zone, about circle height, and was breaking out. As soon as he saw Carefoot was going to get the puck he turned up ice. When he was taking the pass he also had to contend with the stick left on the ice. I don't know if that stopped him from picking up the puck or whether it was intentionally directed forward. Only he could tell us. And yes, McCafferty was at the end of his shift. He was hardly moving when Kennedy got the puck.

[redhair34]

[quote evilnaturedrobot][quote redredux] Could we see FOntas or Scali for Milo, Romano, or Gallagher?[/quote]

why?  Have they made freshman mistakes? of course, but for the most part all three have played well, and they bring a helping of speed and skill that this team hasn't seen in years.  If you sit them now because they havn't been perfect players (and did anyone expect them to be 5 games into they're NCAA carreers?) your going to stunt they're growth.
[/quote]

I agree.  The only way they'll get better and work through those mistakes is with more game time.  Also, I doubt anyone who was at the Brown-Yale games would be in favor of taking Romano out of the lineup after seeing how good that 2nd pp unit can be when they get the ice time.

[schoaff]

[quote KeithK]Kennedy wasn't breaking out of the zone.  He was coming from the bench replacing Bitz who had just gotten out of the box.  It's possible that McCafferty didn't see Kennedy (or at least not quickly enough to react) so he started for the puck and was caught flat footed.[/quote]

I think I have an unfair advantage as I Tivo'd the game and have watched that play again and again and again and again ;-)

Kennedy did come from the bench but he had skated in far enough that he was just about even with Carefoot before making a U turn. He started skating hard while gesturing for the pass. He had two Harvard players chasing him as he shot past McCafferty.

If McCafferty weren't tired because it was the end of his shift I suspect he would have turned around and skated back on defense instead of watching the play go by him. He was also probably pinching in a bit because his team had just given up the lead and then were stymied on the power play. And isn't it crazy the way we can talk for almost an entire day about a play that took roughly 2 seconds to play out.

[redredux]

If Fontas and Scali aren't close to Milo, Gallagher, and Romano, then fine but if they are then I'd favor giving at least one of them some game time.  I thought last night, the Red could have used some more gritty players and from what I gather that's what Fontas and Scali would bring to the table.  Also, maybe Fontas could win some faceoffs.  I don't think sitting one of the other guys for a game or two is going to stunt their growth.  It might spur their growth by making them hungrier and more focused.

[schoaff]

[quote redhair34][quote evilnaturedrobot][quote redredux] Could we see FOntas or Scali for Milo, Romano, or Gallagher?[/quote]

why?  Have they made freshman mistakes? of course, but for the most part all three have played well, and they bring a helping of speed and skill that this team hasn't seen in years.  If you sit them now because they havn't been perfect players (and did anyone expect them to be 5 games into they're NCAA carreers?) your going to stunt they're growth.
[/quote]

I agree.  The only way they'll get better and work through those mistakes is with more game time.  Also, I doubt anyone who was at the Brown-Yale games would be in favor of taking Romano out of the lineup after seeing how good that 2nd pp unit can be when they get the ice time.[/quote]

Don't underestimate Harvard's ability to make other teams look bad in the neutral zone. They are a good team that just shut out BC.

It looked to me like all the Freshmen had great potential and were simply seeing the first really good defense of their college careers. Passes they got away with in the past weren't going through. I'm sure they'll adjust and we'll see great things from them over the next few years.

Last night left me with the feeling that we'll have to beat up on the weak teams during the regular season and hope for some luck in the playoffs because teams like Harvard and Clarkson are simply better than us right now. However, it's not uncommon for Cornell teams to look completely different after the Christmas tournaments. Once they've had more practice time together we may see some 5+ goal games against good competition out of this squad.

I'm not terribly concerned about how we do against Dartmouth tonight (other than the usual win every game to lock up an at large NCAA bid), but I'm really looking forward to seeing how they play New Hampshire.

[KeithK]

[quote evilnaturedrobot]I have no problem with the ECAC enforcing NHL style obstruction rules, what I don't get is why they called hooking and Holding so tightly and let so much blatent interferance go.[/quote]I do have a problem with them enforcing new-NHL style rules (I think they're too tight).  But more importantly hooking and holding are the points of emphasis in the NCAA right now so they get called.  The other stuff are not being emphasized so the refs can let them go to a greater extent.  Especially a guy like John Murphy who tends to let them play.

[quote evilnaturedrobot]The holding and hooking calls where pretty consistent: if you took a hand off your stick and placed it on an opponent you where going to be called.  If you put a stick in the midsection of an opposing layer you got called, no matter how lightly you did it.[/quote]This is what I don't like.  Just placing your stick in the opposing players midsection isn't ghooking in my mind.  You should have to hook him (pull on him) to get a call. BTW - I don't need someone to cite chapter and verse here - I'm talking subjectively.

I do agree that the calls were consistent though.

[Leebob]

[quote evilnaturedrobot][quote redredux] Could we see FOntas or Scali for Milo, Romano, or Gallagher?[/quote]

However, I would like to see Scali at some point, I really liked the brief glimpse of him that we got in the York game (yes I know it was only York.)  Do we know if he's still injured, or if he just hasn't managed to crack the lineup since he went down?[/quote]

"Falling through the cracks, Cornell frosh forward Joe Scali has been "dinged up and unable to play" so far this season, according to Schafer. The nature of his dinged-up-ed-ness and his expected return date are unknown."
From www.uscho.com
:-/

[Cactus12]

I think in order for college hockey to remain a factor in producing future pro-level players, the NCAA rules need to reflect the NHL rules (including the soft hooking, intereference, etc.). It will be very hard for schools to recruit high quality talent if the pro-teams don't think college players can make the transition, and therefore don't draft/sign them.

[calgARI '07]

[quote Leebob]

"Falling through the cracks, Cornell frosh forward Joe Scali has been "dinged up and unable to play" so far this season, according to Schafer. The nature of his dinged-up-ed-ness and his expected return date are unknown."
From www.uscho.com
:-/[/quote]

Where does it say that?

[Leebob]

[quote calgARI '07][quote Leebob]

"Falling through the cracks, Cornell frosh forward Joe Scali has been "dinged up and unable to play" so far this season, according to Schafer. The nature of his dinged-up-ed-ness and his expected return date are unknown."
From www.uscho.com
:-/[/quote]

Where does it say that?[/quote]

It says it near the bottom of the "This Week in the ECACHL" column, in the snapshots section; I would give the link, but my browser's being stupid and won't show me the address....

[evilnaturedrobot]

[quote KeithK]blem with them enforcing new-NHL style rules (I think they're too tight).  But more importantly hooking and holding are the points of emphasis in the NCAA right now so they get called.  The other stuff are not being emphasized so the refs can let them go to a greater extent.  Especially a guy like John Murphy who tends to let them play.[/quote]

I understand this, I just don't see the point of calling holding and hooking but not interferance, all three or obstruction penalties, why emphasize only 2?
[quote KeithK]
This is what I don't like.  Just placing your stick in the opposing players midsection isn't ghooking in my mind.  You should have to hook him (pull on him) to get a call. BTW - I don't need someone to cite chapter and verse here - I'm talking subjectively.
[/quote]

I was a proponent of changing the rules at the NHL level (where the problem was worse) so I'd be a hypocrit I've didn't suport they're enforcment in college.  
Is placing your stick on another player a hook?  no, but the policy is premptive.  The idea is that, eventually, players won't even think about hooking another player because they know it's an automatic call.

Now I personally think that mindset is alittle optimistic, but this policy atleast leads to consistent and clear officiating on the matter.  When you call hooking based on whether or not a hooking motion was made it gets very subjective and tends to lead to alot of hooking going uncalled.  It is much less subjective when it's called automatically upon contact of stick and player.

does it lead to some weak calls?  yes, but I'd rather see hooking and holding called too harshly rather than not harshly enough, because we've seen the type of hockey that produces over the last decade.

[evilnaturedrobot]

[quote Cactus12]I think in order for college hockey to remain a factor in producing future pro-level players, the NCAA rules need to reflect the NHL rules (including the soft hooking, intereference, etc.). It will be very hard for schools to recruit high quality talent if the pro-teams don't think college players can make the transition, and therefore don't draft/sign them.[/quote]

I agree whole heartedly with this.  The influx of top end talent that we've seen recently will slow if NHL hopefuls feel that the college game won't prepair them for the pros.

[evilnaturedrobot]

[quote redredux]If Fontas and Scali aren't close to Milo, Gallagher, and Romano, then fine but if they are then I'd favor giving at least one of them some game time.  I thought last night, the Red could have used some more gritty players and from what I gather that's what Fontas and Scali would bring to the table.  Also, maybe Fontas could win some faceoffs.  I don't think sitting one of the other guys for a game or two is going to stunt their growth.  It might spur their growth by making them hungrier and more focused.[/quote]

this would be fine where it not for the fact that Romano, Gallagher and Milo have all been important players.  Romano's scoring at a point per game pace and has been an essential cog on that second PP unit.  Gallagher and Milo, while less productive, have played well and have earned the right to keep playing.  I'm not adverse to seeing either Fontas or Scali (as I've already said, I'm very much for scali getting icetime) but I can't think of a foward that I"m ready to sit for them.

[DeltaOne81]

[quote Cactus12]From our side (sec A), the Bitz trip was pretty blatant... While on the ground he extended his stick (trying for the puck?) and caught the Harvard guy's skate. It was a bad penalty to take with less than 4 min left in the game.[/quote]

I watched this several times on my TiVo. I am of the definite opinion that he fell, was trying to pick his stick back up when the Harvard guy just fell over it. I don't even think he had a hand on the stick at the time (view was from A so hard to say for sure). Even if he did have a hand on it, he was just trying to pick it up. I am quite convinced it was a bad call - although I understanding that it kinda looked bad in real time.

That said, I thought we picked up a couple penalties just for falling.

[Dafatone]

I thought Scali looked fantastic in the York game.  Would love to see him in the lineup once he's healthy