Recruits -- Progress Report

[BearLover]

My information is from a friend who was the swim coach at a rival Ivy. Having said that it's a few years old - it's possible things have changed. But here goes: The Ivy League still utilized something equivalent to an academic index or AI,  to judge student athlete potential. The AI is a combo of gpa and test scores, with test scores weighted more heavily. There is a minimum AI for each student athlete, though  each school has one "wild card" if you will, basically no academic standards for 1 admit, say like the the quarterback of the football team.

 Additionally, each athletic team's AI must be within one standard deviation of the average AI for the student body. Hence the utility of the "gpa benchwarmer" a role my brother-in-law sarcastically says he fulfilled on the soccer team at his Ivy.

 Not sure if student body AI is determined within a college or for the whole undergraduate populations, but I suspect it's by college. So those are the 2 academic constraints for a teaming doing recruiting.

There is not a huge difference in grades and test scores between Cornell and the top Ivies: HYP. So I kinda doubt it would make much difference in recruiting. However it doesn't make sense to me that HYP would be easier.  My thought is that HYP would have an advantage in the amount of financial aid they offer - more than Cornell, as I don't believe  Cornell can up financial aid on an individual basis to make admission more attractive to a student-athlete.

This is my understanding as well. It should be (marginally) easier to get an athlete into Cornell than HYP. The financial aid thing you mention is true, but upprdeck was talking about academic requirements, not aid. He said: "It will still come down to grades. Much easier to get kids into Harvard/Princeton than Cornell." And that just doesn't make much sense.

[upprdeck]

Aid does make a difference in a small group of kids.
admissions make a difference in another group of kids
Location makes a difference  
degrees offered makes a difference

if you only bring in 6-8 kids a yr and you have one in each group thats half your class.

[Trotsky]

I have heard every permutation of Ivies (x, y) in the sentence "this player got admitted to x and denied by y."

It comes down to which coaches have the clout to get numbnuts guys in, when, and where.   It happens.  It happens far more frequently at non-Ivies.  Shrug.

[Tom Lento]

Since CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.

I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.

My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.

Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[stereax]

Since CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.

I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.

My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.

Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Most of the guys who could play college hockey would have had to choose BCHL/USHL at 15-16 over CHL, and Canadians are notably allergic to college hockey - Celebrini is a major outlier in this regard. I do agree that the Ivies will be slower with the overager influx, though. We'll see where it goes.

[The Rancor]

Since CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.

I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.

My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.

Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.

We get the guys who would have gone to an Ivy, but chose Michigan or BU or Wisconsin because of "better" hockey. The ones with grades who chose hockey get pushed to a great school with a historic program.. but like, not AS good.

[adamw]

Since CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.

I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.

My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.

Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Most of the guys who could play college hockey would have had to choose BCHL/USHL at 15-16 over CHL, and Canadians are notably allergic to college hockey - Celebrini is a major outlier in this regard. I do agree that the Ivies will be slower with the overager influx, though. We'll see where it goes.

This has changed quite a bit over the years, and Celebrini is hardly the only outlier. It goes as far back as Jonathan Toews, but has picked up steam in recent years, including Owen Power and Adam Fantilli, most notably, in the few years before Celebrini. Oh, and Cale Makar.

[stereax]

Since CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.

I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.

My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.

Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Most of the guys who could play college hockey would have had to choose BCHL/USHL at 15-16 over CHL, and Canadians are notably allergic to college hockey - Celebrini is a major outlier in this regard. I do agree that the Ivies will be slower with the overager influx, though. We'll see where it goes.

This has changed quite a bit over the years, and Celebrini is hardly the only outlier. It goes as far back as Jonathan Toews, but has picked up steam in recent years, including Owen Power and Adam Fantilli, most notably, in the few years before Celebrini. Oh, and Cale Makar.

TIL Fantilli is Canadian... I swear I thought he was from the US.

That's definitely true, and maybe I did misspeak, but it's also true that there is a bit of a stigma against NCAA hockey for Canadians. It's been theorized that one of the reasons Celebrini wasn't as hyped coming into the draft as Bedard was because he was in NCAA hockey; additionally, if you look at the Canadian WJC roster this year, a few of the major snubs like Misa are slated to play NCAA, which is eyebrow-raising. Then again, the Canadian roster-building philosophy is interesting, to say the least. There's definitely some sort of politics going around with the CHL, though.

[adamw]

Since CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.

I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.

My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.

Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Most of the guys who could play college hockey would have had to choose BCHL/USHL at 15-16 over CHL, and Canadians are notably allergic to college hockey - Celebrini is a major outlier in this regard. I do agree that the Ivies will be slower with the overager influx, though. We'll see where it goes.

This has changed quite a bit over the years, and Celebrini is hardly the only outlier. It goes as far back as Jonathan Toews, but has picked up steam in recent years, including Owen Power and Adam Fantilli, most notably, in the few years before Celebrini. Oh, and Cale Makar.

TIL Fantilli is Canadian... I swear I thought he was from the US.

That's definitely true, and maybe I did misspeak, but it's also true that there is a bit of a stigma against NCAA hockey for Canadians. It's been theorized that one of the reasons Celebrini wasn't as hyped coming into the draft as Bedard was because he was in NCAA hockey; additionally, if you look at the Canadian WJC roster this year, a few of the major snubs like Misa are slated to play NCAA, which is eyebrow-raising. Then again, the Canadian roster-building philosophy is interesting, to say the least. There's definitely some sort of politics going around with the CHL, though.

you're not saying anything new or mysterious that hasn't been said for 50 years. but fact is, it's way different than it used to be - and it started happening many years before Celebrini. And really, who cares about "hype" - he was picked No. 1 overall, so clearly no one in the NHL cared about "hype."