St. Lawrence at Cornell postgame thread (1/20/06)

Nice effort. 5-2 over St. Lawrence more satisfying that 6-0 over Quinnipiac last Friday. Good effort by the younger players. Nice work by Pokoluk with the two goals. Good PK by Cornell at least in terms of percentage. A couple sensational saves by McKee.

This should make Cornell feel better about the rest of the season. (Barring something bizarre this Saturday like happened last Saturday.)

And thank you, DeVergilio, for that spearing penalty and game DQ late in the third when it was out of reach. Gives Cornell one more incentive to take it to the Saints in three weeks up in the north country.

billhoward
Nice effort. 5-2 over St. Lawrence more satisfying that 6-0 over Quinnipiac last Friday. Good effort by the younger players. Nice work by Pokoluk with the two goals. Good PK by Cornell at least in terms of percentage.

The kill was very good. SLU has an explosive team and they had a ton of power plays.

The pp, OTOH... whew... that was something else.

Sasha, Kindret, Kennedy, Barlow, Bitz, Sawada all with great, great games.

billhoward
Barring something bizarre this Saturday like happened last Saturday.)

Shhh, they'll hear...

That being said, here's hoping that a 5-2 (or a 4-2) over the first place ECAC team in both points and PWR will set the tone for the next few weeks.

A poster, after the Princeton fiasco, said Cornell seemed to be playing at the level of its opponents too many times this season. Absolutely. Tonight also.

Far and away the best game they've played all season. Pokuluk stepped up big time in O'Byrne's absence. This is a game that we could all look back on as the turning point of the season in a couple months. It was the type of win they would always have last season where every single player carried his weight and played well. The freshmen were particularly impressive. Pokuluk should stay on the first unit and O'Byrne should also be there when he gets back. Absolutely enormous win tonight.

billhoward
A poster, after the Princeton fiasco, said Cornell seemed to be playing at the level of its opponents too many times this season. Absolutely. Tonight also.

I disagree with that. Except for the first ten minutes, Cornell was far and away the better team at Princeton. Yes, they lost, but I thought they actually played pretty well. Just couldn't score. Tonight, they played several levels above St. Lawrence.

On another level, and this should not count as woofing, we retain our unofficial title of being the top of the ECAC. Records aside, if SLU had won, given their Wisconsin and Miami games, then beating us, one could argue our reign of so many years was ending. With this, we show we're still in it.

And Clarkson tomorrow is just as important, given our TUC record is what really needs a boost going into this stretch.

checked the score in the second on 1800555tell and found it to be 1-1 then checked later and was please with the 4-2 score in the 3rd. glad to hear the team played up to its capabilities 2nite. lets continue this from here on out.
an interesting factor that I was considering that I do not think had crossed my mind previously is...
the fewer games played by ivy league teams also factors into the bonuses. teams in the ivy league have fewer chances to earn quality wins...losses too but fewer chances to earn quality wins = bonus. and when u schedule niagara, etc...
good luck to the red tomorrow.
LGR!

am I the only one who thought the delay of game penalty on Pokulok was absolute crap?

he threw it, ok... the SLU player touched it, nullifying the hand pass, cam touches the puck, and sasha gets a penalty... did I miss something?

but it was a great game for CU, now we have to keep it up tommorrow night

Dpperk29
am I the only one who thought the delay of game penalty on Pokulok was absolute crap?

he threw it, ok... the SLU player touched it, nullifying the hand pass, cam touches the puck, and sasha gets a penalty... did I miss something?

but it was a great game for CU, now we have to keep it up tommorrow night

I thought it was a legit call. He closed his hand on the puck and threw it. Almost every time I've ever seen that type of play it's been called.

if the ref makes that call, he has to stop play everytime someone closes there hand on the puck... which he did not. oh well, didn't change the outcome, but it really stuck out in my memory of the game as a bad/weak call.

did anyone else think there was something seriously wrong with the ice? it was probably soft because of the weather, but wow... guys were falling everywhere

Dpperk29
if the ref makes that call, he has to stop play everytime someone closes there hand on the puck... which he did not. oh well, didn't change the outcome, but it really stuck out in my memory of the game as a bad/weak call.

did anyone else think there was something seriously wrong with the ice? it was probably soft because of the weather, but wow... guys were falling everywhere

I agree about the ice. Puck wasn't flat ever tonight.
As far as I have seen, the ref almost always stops the play and calls a penalty when a player closes his hand on the puck, particularly when he catches it in mid-air and throws it. It is too tough to call covering the puck when it could technically not be closing one's hand on it. But catching it and throwing it is totally conclusive. That type of play is almost always called.

I noticed no mention of Glover's solid D tonight. Kudos to Glover, he played very well defensively tonight along with Gleeder.

did it seem to anyone else that they came out hitting and finishing their checks better than they have all season, at least at home?

Is Josh Kreiger a freshman? [www.uscho.com]

[Q]After evenhanded play in the first period, the defending ECACHL champions took over, scoring four goals in the second and third periods as they asserted themselves, once again, as the league’s “team to beat.”[/Q]

I appreciate the excitement but we're not in first place.

Closing your hand on the puck is different than a hand pass. The first calls for a penalty whereas the second is a violation that calls for a face-off if the offending team touches the puck next.

When is O'Byrne expected back, anyone have any updates?

You're right, we're both right. Cornell definitely outplayed Princeton. But [edit:] Cornell could not rise above Princeton's two lucky goals (or, one very lucky goal, one breakway goal) and play far enough over the Tigers to come back and win 3-2 in OT.

But no team goes unbeaten in college hockey, with that one incredible exception.

Doug '08
When is O'Byrne expected back, anyone have any updates?

I heard that he's sick (that is, not injured), so I assume that if he's not back tomorrow night, he should definitely be back by next weekend.

edit: saw Bill's Princeton post, thought I was in the wrong thread...but I wasn't. I need to go to sleep.

calgARI '07
Far and away the best game they've played all season. Pokuluk stepped up big time in O'Byrne's absence. This is a game that we could all look back on as the turning point of the season in a couple months. It was the type of win they would always have last season where every single player carried his weight and played well. The freshmen were particularly impressive. Pokuluk should stay on the first unit and O'Byrne should also be there when he gets back. Absolutely enormous win tonight.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Personally, I hope to see more of Kindret, and I hope to see Pokulok continue to achieve--exceed?--his potential.

Not to split hairs, but is Sasha exceeding his potential, or now playing up to the potental of an NHL first round draft choice.

billhoward
Not to split hairs, but is Sasha exceeding his potential, or now playing up to the potental of an NHL first round draft choice.

I'm not sure. I just want him to do well for the team.

Adam - Sorry if the post wasn't lucid. We just launched a website, I was on the road eight days, we're remodeling three bathrooms at home, two PCs just got whacked by something that's either a virus or a serious catfight between Norton and McAfee. And it's still not as sleep-deprived as finals week. Yeah, we should all celebrate the victory and sleep it off. LGR. Sorry: LGR!

atb9
Is Josh Kreiger a freshman? [www.uscho.com]

[Q]After evenhanded play in the first period, the defending ECACHL champions took over, scoring four goals in the second and third periods as they asserted themselves, once again, as the league’s “team to beat.”[/Q]

I appreciate the excitement but we're not in first place.

Sophomore.

billhoward
Adam - Sorry if the post wasn't lucid. We just launched a website, I was on the road eight days, we're remodeling three bathrooms at home, two PCs just got whacked by something that's either a virus or a serious catfight between Norton and McAfee. And it's still not as sleep-deprived as finals week. Yeah, we should all celebrate the victory and sleep it off. LGR. Sorry: LGR!

Completely my fault, Bill. I'm just excited that I might be in attendance at Lynah tomorrow!! The team looked really organized and motivated tonight!

billhoward
Not to split hairs, but is Sasha exceeding his potential, or now playing up to the potental of an NHL first round draft choice.

Definitely the latter. As a first round pick in a conference that doesn't have many first round picks, you are expected to dominate games like Pokuluk did tonight and last Friday against Quinnipiac. At this rate, very little chance he'll be back next year. If he begins to exceed potential, then there is no way in hell he'll be back next year. Either way, I wouldn't be totally shocked to see Washington sign him at the conclusion of Cornell's season if it were in mid to late March (hopefully not that early) and have him play the last few games with the Caps. That is not at all uncommon for teams eliminated from playoff contention to do in the last couple weeks of the season, particularly with college players.

Interesting footnote: When Cornell wins, the forum is civil.

Another great note from tonight is that 11 Cornell players recorded points. A few weeks ago I was talking about the strong play from the peripheral players and more recently I've been happy with the top guys (specifically Bitz, Moulson, Pokuluk). A team like St. Lawrence has far better top end guys than Cornell does, but top-to-bottom they aren't close. So a good defensive team like Cornell can neutralize their top guys and if their by-committee offense works, they're going to take most games.

billhoward
Interesting footnote: When Cornell wins, the forum is civil.

and much longer.

Rich S
Closing your hand on the puck is different than a hand pass. The first calls for a penalty whereas the second is a violation that calls for a face-off if the offending team touches the puck next.

Actually, there are three different things:
[*] batting or deflecting the puck with your (open) hand, which is a hand pass if a teammate touches it next. Catching the puck and immediately dropping it usually falls into this category as well
[*] catching the puck and not letting go quickly enough. This is an infraction that leads to a whistle and a faceoff
[*] catching the puck and carrying or throwing it. This is a minor penaly for delay of game. (Just ask Tim Kotyra and that Denver guy.)

Anyone have the initiative to look the rule up on line?

now that I think about it and read the rules, I realize I am wrong. The NCAA rule is alittle different than the USA hockey rule I am used to calling, but I screwed up either way.

-perk

I heard from a fairly reliable source-reliable in the sense he is often right- that OB got a concussion in practice.

Outstanding game, tonight. Hopefully, Ryan will return, soon, but even when he does, I believe Sasha's pp instincts are worthy of him being at the point.

When O'Byrne plays, he gets dinged for losing the puck in front of McKee. When he's out, we lament his all-round skills and point control on the power play. Sounds like there's a country song in there except the number of country & western songs about hockey are probably few.

billhoward
the number of country & western songs about hockey are probably few.

[www.stompintom.com]

billhoward
When O'Byrne plays, he gets dinged for losing the puck in front of McKee. When he's out, we lament his all-round skills and point control on the power play. Sounds like there's a country song in there except the number of country & western songs about hockey are probably few.

To be fair, I feel like O'Byrne's done that a lot less this season relative to the prior two seasons. So, right now, yes, I do feel like his absence is a loss. Hopefully Pokulok can continue to do well to compensate.

calgARI '07
Definitely the latter. As a first round pick in a conference that doesn't have many first round picks, you are expected to dominate games like Pokuluk did tonight and last Friday against Quinnipiac. At this rate, very little chance he'll be back next year. If he begins to exceed potential, then there is no way in hell he'll be back next year. Either way, I wouldn't be totally shocked to see Washington sign him at the conclusion of Cornell's season if it were in mid to late March (hopefully not that early) and have him play the last few games with the Caps. That is not at all uncommon for teams eliminated from playoff contention to do in the last couple weeks of the season, particularly with college players.

While the Caps would sign him if Sasha wants out of his current situation (a la Chris Borque), I don't think they'll be in a hurry if they think he's making progress here. College players often sign right out - but usually when they're seniors and have no more eligibility.

Caps have been showing patience with bringing up their D-men to the NHL - and they have quite a few in the queue now. Only this year has Morrison and Eminger established themselves as legitimate players in the NHL and they're draft class of 2001 and 2002 respectively. Mike Green, from 2004, didn't sign this year until he absolutely wowed the coaches at the summer prospect camp. They even didn't rush Eric Fehr (a forward from 2003) until he was out of major junior eligibility even though he was tearing up the WHL. Sasha wouldn't make the NHL roster now and it's even a question if he'd make the Hershey roster now.... so then the question is whether from a development standpoint, he's better off in Ithaca or in the ECHL. I'm also not sure how signing him early (and being in the minors) affects his free agency status downstream. My guess is that McPhee holds off on anything until after the summer prospect camp and then there if he looks ready for the AHL, they might sign him, otherwise they'll send him back to Ithaca with a list of things they want him to work on.

redGrinch
While the Caps would sign him if Sasha wants out of his current situation (a la Chris Borque), I don't think they'll be in a hurry if they think he's making progress here. College players often sign right out - but usually when they're seniors and have no more eligibility.

That all changed with the new CBA. NHL teams used to have the rights of draft picks for (I'm pretty sure) a year after they finished college. That's been changed to 60 or 90 days. It gives the recently graduated player a LOT more leverage in negotiations and thus pro teams the incentive to get kids out early while they have the leverage. Expect more and more draft picks to leave early than before-- especially first and second rounders.

O'Byrne has been far and away this team's MVP and best player. Nobody comes close. The guy has played 30 minutes a night, played against opposing top players most of those minutes, and led the defense in scoring.

calgARI '07
O'Byrne has been far and away this team's MVP and best player. Nobody comes close. The guy has played 30 minutes a night, played against opposing top players most of those minutes, and led the defense in scoring.

Exactly...A few dominating nights from Pokulok shouldn't gloss over O'Byrne's value to this team.

And we also shouldn't forget that Gleed and Glover have been injured for large parts of the season while Pokuluk didn't really show up until last week while Krantz was the best player on whichever team Cornell happened to be playing that night for the first few weeks and Seminoff was adjusting to the college games (still is for sure). O'Byrne was carrying this team on his back.

Agreed! To amplify on redGrinch's comments, the Caps have already retooled and have a number of project players on board already. Not as if they're looking to unload a lot of expensive contracts and make wholesale roster changes. Did that two years ago. There's a lot of young, raw talent already in the organization, and Sasha's at the end of the queue.

There are two kinds of MVPs - the one who does the most for your team when he's playing, and the one you miss most when he's out. ROB could be the first type. OTOH, we've won without O'Byrne, could win without Matt Moulson, won with Sasha off at the Juniors ... but where would we be with David McKee on crutches?

billhoward
There are two kinds of MVPs - the one who does the most for your team when he's playing, and the one you miss most when he's out. ROB could be the first type. OTOH, we've won without O'Byrne, could win without Matt Moulson, won with Sasha off at the Juniors ... but where would we be with David McKee on crutches?

Well certainly McKee is the team's Most Valuable Player in that exactly what you said, he would be missed the most if he were gone. But O'Byrne has been the team's Most Valuable Player so far this year in that he has contributed far and away the most to the team's performance. McKee has been much better the last month, but he's been very average this season as a whole.

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but I thought Gleed played exceptionally well last night. His play was overshadowed by Pokoluk, but he was very solid especially in his own end. In the 3rd period he blocked a few key shots on the PK and set the tone defensively down the stretch.

redhair34
I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but I thought Gleed played exceptionally well last night. His play was overshadowed by Pokoluk, but he was very solid especially in his own end. In the 3rd period he blocked a few key shots on the PK and set the tone defensively down the stretch.

I agree. He was very good last week too (except for the goal he scored on McKee) so much so I thought the last three games have been his best three of the season. I was very disappointed with his play prior to his injury and thought it was one of the key reasons to their 4-3 start.

All of this was so pleasant to read.

I guess we need to see the results of our games against Colgate to know if we want the DeVergilio suspension to hurt SLU, right? Or do we even care, since we play two games against both teams? (For conference-representation-at-NCAA purposes I guess we need to wait until the end of the season to decide whether we want the suspension to hurt SLU.)

Managed to watch the archive file last night without seeing the score first. Boy was it worth staying up. That second period was amazing and Sasha definitely kept the power play moving, not to mention got some great chances himself. I have never noticed him much in the few other games I have seen him play, but I couldn't miss him last night.
Other than towards the end of the 3rd period when the team was basically protecting the lead, I thought the play overall and the power play in particular were amazing. SLU couldn't even clear the puck on many of our power plays, let alone break up the flow of the passing. We kept the puck moving, and hustled to keep it inside the blue line whenever SLU did get a stick on it. The PK is looking like it did over the last few years as well. I didn't see SLU setting up nearly as well as we were able to do against them.
McKee wasn't heavily challenged, but he did make some big saves when it really counted. The one that stood out to me was in the 2nd period with the score still 2-1 (maybe 3-1). Pegoraro hesitated too long behind the net, allowing the SLU forechecker to steal the puck and immediately get the puck in front of the net. McKee stopped the sudden, point-blank shot, preventing a potential major change in momentum. I think we made it 3-1 right after that play, so the timing was huge as far as the feeling of the game.
The Kennedy backhand on the break-away was a real beauty. The timing on that was also fantastic, since we had just had a goal waved off. The team did a great job keeping the pressure on, when events like this could have easily killed some of our momentum. Let's hope the play last night is indicative of where this team is going. LGR!!!

[q]But no team goes unbeaten in college hockey, with that one incredible exception.[/q]Well, two exceptions. But that other team cheated...

KeithK
[q]But no team goes unbeaten in college hockey, with that one incredible exception.[/q]Well, two exceptions. But that other team cheated...

I see we are starting early toknight

jtwcornell91

Rich S
Closing your hand on the puck is different than a hand pass. The first calls for a penalty whereas the second is a violation that calls for a face-off if the offending team touches the puck next.

Actually, there are three different things:
[*] batting or deflecting the puck with your (open) hand, which is a hand pass if a teammate touches it next. Catching the puck and immediately dropping it usually falls into this category as well
[*] catching the puck and not letting go quickly enough. This is an infraction that leads to a whistle and a faceoff
[*] catching the puck and carrying or throwing it. This is a minor penaly for delay of game. (Just ask Tim Kotyra and that Denver guy.)

Anyone have the initiative to look the rule up on line?

NCAA 2006 Ice Hockey Rules and Interpretations[q]Handling the Puck
SECTION 19. a. The puck may be stopped, carried or kick-passed by the skate or by any other part of the body, but not carried or held. A player may use the hand to stop the puck on or off the ice. The puck may be batted by the open hand but the player who batted it must be the first to recover it for that team.
FACE-OFF - At the point of the infraction.
Play shall not be stopped for any hand pass by players in their respective defensive zone, provided the pass is initiated and completed in the defensive zone.
If the puck is caught and dropped immediately, play shall continue. If the puck is carried or held, play shall be stopped. If the puck is thrown, a minor penalty shall be assessed.[/q]