Frozen Four Results

jtn27
Well, that just seems uncalled for. Also, somewhat homophobic.

You must be new to the internet. I was just baiting him because it felt like a good flamewar was in order after all the pissing and moaning.

ScrewBU
Don't listen to these morons. They are the same 10 people circle jerking each other.

Success!

BearLover
ScrewBU might be a "troll," but he is raises some good points:
-the top posters on this forum are not representative of the average Cornell fan, and definitely not of the students
-there is a tremendous amount of circle jerking between the established posters here
-if you disagree with the established posters, you are labeled a troll

Shockingly, I agree with you: most of the time, I am arguing the unpopular viewpoint, which is part of the reason I don't post much anymore. However, if you have been reading the whole thread, this is not an instance in which groupthink has taken over: if anything, I think Greg and I are in the minority here.

Chuck Henderson
I think BearLover's arguments are being given too little credence.

Upon a night's reflection, I think you are right. I still don't agree with you, but I do think I dismissed his arguments too quickly in the euphoria of the moment. Ultimately, only time will tell whether this is net-positive for Cornell. What I want you all to consider is what "net-positive" means.

To me, that isn't winning a greater percentage of ECAC championships, as fun as those are: it's winning more at the national level, against teams from historically stronger conferences. Ultimately, that is why I want a stronger ECAC, so Cornell plays nationally-competitive teams every weekend, not just in 4-5 non-conference games per year. I wanted the Brown/Yale/Union/Dartmouth/Princeton/Quinnipiac games not to be a joke and to be more than an opportunity to completely fuck up our PWR. Well... success!

Getting a look from recruits who previously would have hit "delete" on that voicemail from ECAC recruiters will help us compete more consistently at the national level at precisely the time when big money is moving into D1 hockey... but it is only necessary, not sufficient. "Necessary" means a strong ECAC is better for Cornell, if Cornell takes care of the other stuff. Fix the other stuff.

To that end, I'll repeat my earlier objection to the beggar-thy-neighbor viewpoint. Cornell has to take care of business at home. The reason Cornell finished 9th in the ECAC this year wasn't a talent deficit relative to the rest of the league: you can't look at our recruits and honestly come to that conclusion. That leaves coaching, culture, and luck. (I guess real fans blame it all on bad luck?) The reason Cornell has been schooled by Yale for the past half-decade isn't an individual talent deficit. It's that Yale plays better hockey, full stop. That has to be addressed by the coaching staff.

Were you guys watching the Yale power play yesterday? Unbelievable the way they move that puck around. Cornell's PP is a fucking joke by comparison, or it would be if it weren't the culmination of a decade of facepalm on that front. At times it I felt like I was watching the 2003 semifinal, with UML as Cornell—a bunch of trees playing a defensive game against a much faster team—except in this version, they were getting creamed on the stat sheet despite keeping the game close on the scoreboard. IMO, it's not good to play on your heels for an entire game. I think the problem versus Yale is more in there than in any talent deficit. Consequently, I am increasingly willing to entertain the notion that Cornell's system is just broken in 2013.

Chuck Henderson
I would rather be the big school in a small pond--meaning big enough to compete at the highest level--as opposed to one of a number of ECAC schools, competitive and good, but from which we do not stand out.
...
I want Cornell to be the one to win a championship. If we now do it in the near future, it will be less special. I want Cornell to be unique.

Unfortunately, I would argue that it is precisely this attitude that kept Cornell from going all the way back in the early-mid 00's: we did great in our pond, but then hit the brick wall of more talented teams playing a faster game. Incredibly, we won a lot of those, but not enough in a row. I've been arguing for a decade for better competition all around, and now we've got it. Let's see if the coaching staff can figure out how to play consistently well against consistently better competition.

The pond is getting bigger whether you like it or not. Deal with it, instead of pining for the good old days.

Chris, too bad there's no Like button so we can sophomorically enthuse over what you said with a single click. You hit it right on the head.

1. What's the medical condition for when a person can't stand the success of other people? I mean, other than "fan."
2. ECAC has been down so long, since 1985 (RPI) and 1989 (Harvard) titles, that we needed this. Sure, it gives advantages to Yale and Quinnipiac in recruiting. The ECAC-only final gives advantages to the other 10 teams who can tell recruits they're playing in a real league. We need to follow up with frozen four entrants the next couple years and at least one more title so it's less of a fluke season.
3. We had our chances in 2002 2003 in the NCAA semis and Leneveau let in a soft goal and we took a late penalty but why obsess on that? (As I just did.) And we came close to sneaking in a couple years ago, too.
4. Quinnipiac has the advantage of an incredible rink. Fair-weather students will show up more. They're going to wish they'd built a 6,000-seat rink. This facility is a huge plus for the ECAC.
5. The ECAC needs to be nationally commpetitive, say the top five teams, not just one or two, to keep Q in the fold. Can you see Hockey East chatting up Q?

It's too bad the title game schools are both in Connecticut because the storyline will be All-Connecticut Final rather than All-ECAC Final. Union vs. Quinnipiac, that I'd have like better except my rooting preferences are Ivy League over anyone else.

One other thing:

BearLover
in 2010 we only won the ECAC because Yale got upset earlier

Time is the great clarifier. I recall the shitstorm I created here for saying exactly the same thing back in 2010.

[elf.elynah.com]

Kyle Rose
No need to repeat what Greg said. I'll just add that Cornell is hardly "a 9th place team" from the perspective of a recruit: Cornell has been the most consistently good team in the conference over the past decade and a half: one off year doesn't change that. By virtue of attracting recruits that would previously not have returned the calls of ECAC recruiters, a stronger conference will definitely benefit the strongest teams in the conference: Yale, Union, Quinnipiac, Cornell, and (yes) Harvard.

Yeah, this "bad" team stuff is such nonsense. Recruits surely recognize our long-term success, the Lynah experience, etc. Having stronger ECAC programs will only be good for us IMO.

Hey, I'm just popping in to see what the discussion would be like after last night's results and OH MY GOD WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED IN HERE??? Clean up this mess, all of you!

Sorry, parenting reflex.

Seriously, stop poking your sister. Don't make me come back there.

Chuck Henderson
In the context of this discussion only, I might almost say Very Serious Posters, but I suppose that's not really fair.

Krugman is a Yale alum.

I hope eLF never becomes a place where new posters feel they can't make a point unless they have 2000 posts.

BUT. At the same time, a poster can't just make the same emotionally-charged statement 20 times in a row and then claim it's a circle jerk because people aren't converted to the One True Faith. The appropriate response to not convincing somebody of your argument is to (1) refine your argument or (2) ascribe it to a matter of taste and move on.

We get that there are people who will never root for ECAC teams in the NCAAs. We understand their arguments. We simply do not agree with them. After a while, the repetition of the same sentiment over and over and over again becomes browbeating -- a strategy that doesn't often work anywhere and particularly not on a forum where the vast majority of posters are intelligent, highly educated, and self-confident in their powers of perception and reason.

At the end of the day we are Cornell hockey fans. We can enjoy that and try to respect our occasional differences, or we can subdivide into, say, which NHL team we root for, and then rip each other to shreds like George and Martha after a bottle of scotch.

billhoward
3. We had our chances in 2002 in the NCAA semis and Leneveau let in a soft goal and we took a late penalty but why obsess on that? (As I just did.)

If you're going to obsess get the goddamn year right.

Kyle Rose
Were you guys watching the Yale power play yesterday? Unbelievable the way they move that puck around. Cornell's PP is a fucking joke by comparison, or it would be if it weren't the culmination of a decade of facepalm on that front. At times it I felt like I was watching the 2003 semifinal, with UML as Cornell—a bunch of trees playing a defensive game against a much faster team—except in this version, they were getting creamed on the stat sheet despite keeping the game close on the scoreboard.

The fact that it was Yale does shake one of the foundational assumptions of post-80s Cornell hockey: that for an Ivy to compete nationally they have to have a defense-first system because blue chip offensive players will always go to CHL or the Factory Schools. Yale is a direct and dramatic refutation of that axiom.

I love Schafer for saving the program in the mid-90s and I'll never be able to shake that loyalty, but if I were anti-Schafer or just young and craving a run and gun style, that's where I'd start to make my argument for change.

The other thing that has been noticeable throughout the NCAAs is that Union, Yale and Q all played like they were having a blast out there. It wasn't "creativity" -- Union for instance isn't creative at all, they're just a solid team. But they had the "Leadership and Passion" of our '02-'08 teams. Meanwhile, in recent seasons, even when Cornell was winning, they played like they were skating in psychological cement. It looked like a job, and a not very rewarding one.

BearLover

BearLover
It is unfortunate you derive such pleasure from something that will ultimately hurt Cornell, blah blah blah blah blah blah

Stop talking in extremes. Cornell doesn't suck. Nothing short of winning a championship is going to undo this damage, and that task just got considerably harder.

Strongly disagree with your basic premise. Go Yale!

The biggest hurdle Cornell hockey faces in the ECAC is the same one that Cornell basketball will face in the long term in basketball: HYP are now basically scholarship programs with very high academic standards. The only players who can't get scholarships don't really need them anyway. The more academic-minded exceptions will take scholarships from comparable non-Ivies. Full stop. The difference between Yale and Harvard is the distance between what Ted Donato's potential and Ted Donato's results. The difference between H/Y and Princeton appears to be caring enough to want to win. Yale has had our number - but our overall results in the last 5 years have been on par with Yale's, the last three weeks aside.

Cornell had a bad year (with flashes of very good) one year removed from being a goal away from the Final Four. Somehow that has translated into Cornell developing a reputation as a "9th place team". This year Kentucky lost in the first round of the NIT; next year they are bringing in 6 players currently ranked in the top 20.

Cornell had so many chances in the 2000s. That they didn't win is a huge disappointment, but how close did we come? We lost to UNH in the 2002 semis on a bad no-goal call on Hynes and a miracle save in the final minute on Bâby. We lost OT games on the road against Minnesota and Wisconsin. We lost a one goal game to FSU LAST YEAR. THIS HAS BEEN AN ELITE PROGRAM. One weak year - that included coming 64 seconds shy of knocking an NCAA finalist out in the conference QF - is not the death of the program.

In a nutshell, I want the other ECAC schools to be better than garbage. We will lose more but it will be nice when every loss doesn't drop you 8 places in the PWR because your SOS is flaming garbage to begin with. It will be more fun to win a competitive league. The competition in the Big 10 makes it more likely that Minnesota, Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, tOSU and eventually Penn State will win national titles, not less, and that's where I want to see the ECAC.

Chris '03
While it will match packages from HYP, it can't do anything for a kid who needs the financial help and can't get into HYP. It's not a great position to be in for Cornell's recruiting approach to have to be "we want you to come here. Now go apply to HYP and when you get in, we'll get you a free ride here."

HYP have an enormous financial aid advantage right now over Cornell, Brown, and Dartmouth. Cornell has history, tradition, etc., which is great. But eventually money talks.

Whereas, being a historian of a somewhat Marxist bent, I completely agree with the last part of your argument and worry along with you about what HYP's money advantages mean over the long term (say, 20 to 30 years) for the competitiveness of Cornell and, even, the coherence of the Ivy League, I do have a quibble with the other 'graph.

Cornell has seemed to attract, from what I've heard and seen, great hockey players who are interested in pursuing a major within the purview of one of the statutory colleges and those whose families are either quite poor or quite rich. Due to a number of connected factors that I will choose not to go into here, players interested in the statutory colleges are unlikely to look elsewhere in the League, ECAC or Ivy. Those are our recruits to lose; yet, if we lose them, we do so to Michigan State, Ohio State, and the like rather than to the other League schools. That has always been the case, but I would hazard a guess that a better profile for the league might help us grab a few more of those recruits. (Indeed, we should do much better with in-state recruits than we have historically—as a proud product of upstate New York, it's something that has always bothered me.) The others, whose families are either quite poor and the quite rich, might very well look at the other Ivys; indeed, I'm sure the academically gifted ones always have, but we'll always get our share of them and we'll pick up the ones who are not academically gifted enough to attend Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. With Yale's recent success, we might lose out on some truly academically gifted recruits whose families are either rich or poor, but how many of those are there anyway? Have we really lost many? Will we?

So, what you're probably rolling over in your head is what this means for recruiting players whose families fit into the lower middle class or upper lower class, who, previous to these financial efforts from Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, were just royally screwed. If academically talented, they're now in the same boat as the quite poor and the quite rich; if not, they're still royally screwed. It's too bad that we can't make the same commitments that Harvard, Yale, and Princeton can, but the financial resources are not there. So, we'll continue to lose the less academically gifted recruits to scholarship schools as we always have; indeed, if they don't pick up a scholarship somewhere, they're heading to major junior. But the academically gifted students whose families fall into the right economic category are now open to recruitment, in a financial sense, from all the Ivys. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the agreement means that Cornell can offer the same exact package, should it choose, that Harvard, Yale, or Princeton offers; i.e., neither Cornell nor any of those three can "sweeten the pot." These players were simply off the table before.

How does this mean anything else than an enormous enlargement of the recruiting pool, strengthening recruiting at any of the Ivies against any other schools? If I were coaching at RPI, Notre Dame, BC, Michigan, Colgate, BC, BU, Northeastern, Wisconsin, CC, Michigan Tech, or Penn State, this would give me pause; in particular, if I were coaching at Union or RIT, I'd be quite worried. Because, if I'm an academically gifted student, why wouldn't I try the Ivy League? Cornell's going to win its share of those recruiting battles; indeed, it might create the situation where there's quite a bit more talent to go around.

So, it's not "we want you to come here—now go apply to HYP"; it's "you're applying to HYP anyway, now let us explain to you why you fit best here." Before, it was "we'd love to have you, but we can't offer anything close to the scholarship that Michigan is offering." To put a finer point on it, for any middle-class potential student who is academically gifted and fits within the boundaries of the new financial intiatives, money doesn't "talk."

Trotsky
The F4 makes its annual appearance in Deadspin, although this one isn't as witless as usual.

Jonathan Mahler, Deadspin
Where does hockey fit into all of this? In the mid-1990s, [Q president John] Lahey realized that Quinnipiac was missing out on the free publicity customarily lavished on successful Division I sports programs.

Free after the $53 million for the sports complex, coaching salaries, travel, equipment. The article likens the publicity to like what Florida Gulf Coast University got out of NCAA basketball. Nice that Mahler calls this the prestigious ECAC Q got admitted to.

I'm definitely in the camp that wants to see the ECAC do well in the NCAAs, although it does feel a little weird that it's Quinnipiac, Union and Yale (two of which were not even in the ECAC when I was in school, and not even Division I the last time the ECAC won a title) that made the run. I think if you replaced Union with Cornell, Yale with RPI and Q with Clarkson, it would be a little easier to rejoiced in this year's tournament run. (This is why I'm pulling for Yale on Saturday; even if they haven't done much in the NCAAs over the years, they're still a somewhat traditional ECAC program.)

While we're all disappointed it won't be Cornell breaking the ECAC national title drought, at least we won't have to hear about how Harvard was the last ECAC team to win a national title.

jtn27
I expect those of you who are happy about this to do this chant on Saturday (except, obviously, with the appropriate letters): [www.youtube.com]

I suggested to Judy that we start the E-C-A-C chant while we were on the escalators exiting the arena. The walk to the bar last night, I reflected on how much league-pride I was feeling, and how utterly weird it is to feel that. If this is how WCHA & HEA fans feel all the time, it is pretty intoxicating.

I'm beaming the rest of my time in Pittsburgh.

And since it was 2003 not 2002, I lost the chance to say that "ironically, it was 10 years ago exactly that Cornell fell to ..." Speaking of overused words, count how many times Barry Melrose says "by far" as in "Hartzell is bar far playing his best hockey of the year" ... "by far that was the best hit" ... "by far he's the dominant defensive pairing in this tournament."

Chuck Henderson
league when my team was eliminated (for example, the NL in MLB). In recent decades, I've kind of lost that attitude. In baseball, I now say at the time of the World Series, I wish it would rain until spring training (ignoring the existence of stadiums with domes). Here, I could say I wish ice would not stay frozen. I used to be for the team that eliminated my team; I still have that preference to some extent. I used to hate the Yankees. In more recent times, as that waned, I'm just as happy if they win rather than some team I feel more competitive with--one more win just gets lost in the mix. In the same way, it would not bother me if Michigan, say, won another, whereas Yale winning is too close to home. Quinnipiac bothers me less because one can at least say they have lower academic standards and scholarships.

When I was a kid I think that was the dominant attidtude. You always (usually) pulled for your league in the playoffs or World Series. For instance, As a Yankees fan I saw no issues rooting for the Red Sox in '86. They were the AL East team (and I had a lot of annoying friends who were big Mets fans). Hand in hand with that was league loyalty in things like tha All Star game. I really wanted to beat those damn NLers because I was an AL fan.

Somewhere along the line this attitude changed. I think one big factor is the way media cvers sports. ESPN plays up rivalries to such a ridiculous degree. When the focus is on hating rivals it's hard to feel that sense of loyalty. There are plenty of other factors one could come up with but this is a big one that comes to mind.

In college hockey I've had twenty years of EZAC threads to build up and sustain my sense of league loyalty.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
I now officially don't give a shit who wins on Saturday. Let the partying begin two days early!

This.

Everybody in CT and PA has my permission to go on a three-day drinking binge.

When the clock strikes midnight Saturday, it's back to fuck both Yale and Q. Until then, New Haven über alles.

This. As a CT resident in Pittsburgh, I'm obeying Trotsky's orders, and just cracked another beer. It is party time for me. I may even run into one of my neighbors:

@govmalloyoffice guarantees win for CT team in #frozenfour. Will go to game in Pittsburgh.#ctpolitics

— Rick Green (@CTConfidential) April 12, 2013

Trotsky
The other thing that has been noticeable throughout the NCAAs is that Union, Yale and Q all played like they were having a blast out there

Yale. 2010. Sean Backman. Swimming pool mishap. NCAAs: BC 9, Yale 7. [www.collegehockeynews.com]

Wow. This is embarrassing. I won't be back to this thread. Ever. If this type of posting spreads, I won't be back to eLynah, a forum I have always admired for the wit and wisdom of the posters, even when I disagreed with them.

dag14
Wow. This is embarrassing. I won't be back to this thread. Ever. If this type of posting spreads, I won't be back to eLynah, a forum I have always admired for the wit and wisdom of the posters, even when I disagreed with them.

Thank you. Although I won't go as far as you, the drift of this thread has been atrocious. I don't know which is worse, those that proclaim without any data (...that far majority..., ...most of us...) or those that respond by classic putdowns. Neither of these add anything to good discussion, but if it was a flame war you wanted, you got it. Going back to another poster's parental response, "You guys should be ashamed of yourselves".

Jim Hyla

dag14
Wow. This is embarrassing. I won't be back to this thread. Ever. If this type of posting spreads, I won't be back to eLynah, a forum I have always admired for the wit and wisdom of the posters, even when I disagreed with them.

Thank you. Although I won't go as far as you, the drift of this thread has been atrocious. I don't know which is worse, those that proclaim without any data (...that far majority..., ...most of us...) or those that respond by classic putdowns. Neither of these add anything to good discussion, but if it was a flame war you wanted, you got it. Going back to another poster's parental response, "You guys should be ashamed of yourselves".

I'll take that under advisement, gramps.

Quinnipiac is in deadspin again: [deadspin.com]

Want to learn how to spell Quinnipiac correctly? Do what I did and write it on $50,000 checks for four years in a row, my daughter is a graduate. Their facility is simply amazing.

Look at it this way, you're some 19 year old kid and you go see the old referb'ed barn that Cornell plays in and someone is telling you how full of history it is. Then you go to Quinnipiac and see a state of the art place with luxury dorms across the parking lot. QU has a hell of a coach with a 17 year win streak as well. QU has good academic programs and they can give you a scholarship as well. Where would you choose?

QU is an emerging school and yes there is no long tradition. I've been to a dozen games over the past five years and they are starting to get it with a pep band and Boomer the Mascot. If they win this they will have their tradition. They still need some decent cheers and a fight song.

How many of you were even alive in when Cornell last won a national championship? When I was there (Class of '83) at least I remembered watching Dryden play for the Canadians. QU’s rise over the past 7 years is pretty damn impressive.

rep2
QU is an emerging school and yes there is no long tradition. I've been to a dozen games over the past five years and they are starting to get it with a pep band and Boomer the Mascot. If they win this they will have their tradition. They still need some decent cheers and a fight song.

Without mentioning (by mentioning) all the free yellow t-shirts they've been throwing around town (Sharp Edge Bistro is their "home" bar and the whole staff were wearing "Gold Rush" shirts pre-game) and the thunderstix and the cheerleaders, there was a surprise from the QU contingent yesterday, and that was that the QU band actually played a song after they scored. No idea where that came from, but it's welcome. For those of you who have never been there, their "goal song" in Hamden is one of the standard jock jamz blasted over the loudspeaker.

For all the love that the QU arena gets, I'm not on board. They've clearly decided that they want to give the community more of a pro-game, ECHL experience than a collegiate experience. Watching a game there, surrounded by all of the concrete suitable for a fallout bunker. Terrible atmosphere. Terrible transit in/out. Blah.

Here's how I see it: Since 2000, the WCHA has won 7 NCAA titles, and just one of those teams also won the MacNaughton Cup (first place in the league) - and that one was shared between CC/Denver in '05. The strength of their league lifted all their boats so far that even their 3rd and 4th place teams were capable of getting to the tournament and going on a 4-game run. Yale's and Q's runs this year may very well make it harder for Cornell to finish in first place and to win the ECAC tournament (glass half empty) but it should improve Cornell's chances of making the NCAA tournament AND being able to compete once there (glass half full). It all depends whether you value the conference or NCAA accolades more highly.

Robb
It all depends whether you value the conference or NCAA accolades more highly.

Even if you value the conference accolades more highly (or most likely value the higher frequency) I think it's more fun when your rivals are good and you have to work hard for the titles.

rep2
Look at it this way, you're some 19 year old kid and you go see the old referb'ed barn that Cornell plays in and someone is telling you how full of history it is. Then you go to Quinnipiac and see a state of the art place with luxury dorms across the parking lot. QU has a hell of a coach with a 17 year win streak as well. QU has good academic programs and they can give you a scholarship as well. Where would you choose?

Pepperdine.



Q is having a nice run. Enjoy it. If they can parlay it into multiple classes of great recruits and titles, good for them. Nearly every team in the ECAC (sorry, Brown) has at one time or another been "undeniably the next great hockey dynasty!!!11!" And of course, as we have seen it's been true every time.

Hey, just put yourselves in Clarkson's shoes. Quinnipiac or Yale will have won a national championship before them. They'll still have the "best program to never win a national title" moniker attached to their name.

"Quinnipiac spokesman John Morgan said a shuttle service that typically brings students to New Haven will be canceled Saturday night to keep students safe."

[Insert New Haven joke here.]

[www.courant.com]

Every time I drive past Pepperdine I think "How can you get through in four years with the beach across the street [faith in the Lord to draw you away from temptation?]?" and "That is the best housing most students will live in until they're 30 or trust-fund babies."

Trotsky

rep2
Look at it this way, you're some 19 year old kid and you go see the old referb'ed barn that Cornell plays in and someone is telling you how full of history it is. Then you go to Quinnipiac and see a state of the art place with luxury dorms across the parking lot. QU has a hell of a coach with a 17 year win streak as well. QU has good academic programs and they can give you a scholarship as well. Where would you choose?

Pepperdine.

mc4.jpg

Q is having a nice run. Enjoy it. If they can parlay it into multiple classes of great recruits and titles, good for them. Nearly every team in the ECAC (sorry, Brown) has at one time or another been "undeniably the next great hockey dynasty!!!11!" And of course, as we have seen it's been true every time.

Meh.

jtwcornell91

Trotsky

rep2
Look at it this way, you're some 19 year old kid and you go see the old referb'ed barn that Cornell plays in and someone is telling you how full of history it is. Then you go to Quinnipiac and see a state of the art place with luxury dorms across the parking lot. QU has a hell of a coach with a 17 year win streak as well. QU has good academic programs and they can give you a scholarship as well. Where would you choose?

Pepperdine.

mc4.jpg

Q is having a nice run. Enjoy it. If they can parlay it into multiple classes of great recruits and titles, good for them. Nearly every team in the ECAC (sorry, Brown) has at one time or another been "undeniably the next great hockey dynasty!!!11!" And of course, as we have seen it's been true every time.

Meh.

4-campus-air.jpg

Goleta!

I like our view better! Talk about thread drift!!!

Larry72
I like our view better! Talk about thread drift!!!

Ithaca_4_1274904313.jpg

Let's remember that it is 14 degrees in that picture.

ugarte

Larry72
I like our view better! Talk about thread drift!!!

Ithaca_4_1274904313.jpg

Let's remember that it is 14 degrees in that picture.

celsius

Jim Hyla

ugarte

Larry72
I like our view better! Talk about thread drift!!!

Ithaca_4_1274904313.jpg

Let's remember that it is 14 degrees in that picture.

celsius

In September.

Trotsky

Jim Hyla

ugarte

Larry72
I like our view better! Talk about thread drift!!!

Ithaca_4_1274904313.jpg

Let's remember that it is 14 degrees in that picture.

celsius

In September.

Your point??! As someone who lives in Ithaca today, the summers are glorious!

RIT has a campus in Dubrovnik, Croatia (where Age can spend the 50 kuna he won for designing the Fighting Deerticks logo), although I've never been:

Goleta!

Interesting that you picked the west-coast campus that rivals Cornell in its macabre obsession with its natural terrain (Cornell's gorges vs. UCSB's bluffs). Do the people who post pics of UCSB actually go to the beach in IV?

So, St. Cloud and UMass Lowell get the Hobey and Coach awards, while Yale and Q play for the championship.

Ken Schott nicely describes why this is a time to be proud.

Definitely rooting for Yale tonight. QU is too new to the scene and I like the idea of Yale beating 3 #1 seeds to take the title. Squash any nonsense about an ECAC team raising the trophy after an easy path.

Sorry, BearLover.

ugarte
Definitely rooting for Yale tonight. QU is too new to the scene and I like the idea of Yale beating 3 #1 seeds to take the title. Squash any nonsense about an ECAC team raising the trophy after an easy path.

I knew I'd have a hard time of deciding. In the end, you can't choose who your heart roots for. I admit that I found myself rooting for Canisius to knock off QU in the 1st round. The way I phrased it to myself (and others): "Which arena would be least distasteful to see a 'National Champions' banner hanging the next time you walked through the doors?" For me, the answer is Yale. As soon as they hoisted an ECAC banner, I saw that they did a respectful job. They are the oldest existing collegiate program, with a grand collegiate arena. And it would be an extra knife-twist to Harvard. I'm OK with either winning, but I find myself pulling for Yale. Allain won't be there forever.

RichH

ugarte
Definitely rooting for Yale tonight. QU is too new to the scene and I like the idea of Yale beating 3 #1 seeds to take the title. Squash any nonsense about an ECAC team raising the trophy after an easy path.

I knew I'd have a hard time of deciding. In the end, you can't choose who your heart roots for. I admit that I found myself rooting for Canisius to knock off QU in the 1st round. The way I phrased it to myself (and others): "Which arena would be least distasteful to see a 'National Champions' banner hanging the next time you walked through the doors?" For me, the answer is Yale. As soon as they hoisted an ECAC banner, I saw that they did a respectful job. They are the oldest existing collegiate program, with a grand collegiate arena. And it would be an extra knife-twist to Harvard. I'm OK with either winning, but I find myself pulling for Yale. Allain won't be there forever.

And you'd root for the old line country club Yankees over Rodney in Caddyshack? "I think this place is restricted, Wang, so don't tell them you're Jewish. Okay?"

Larry72
I like our view better! Talk about thread drift!!!

Ithaca_4_1274904313.jpg

Unfortunately, you can't see the gorgeous view of our campus from our campus. Score a big one for IC's tower dorms though.

Likely I'll be rooting for Yale once the game starts; right now in theory I have no preference.

Yale for me.

I'm for three quick outs for Texas A&M.

You know... I thought I'd be rooting for Yale, but suddenly I think I am pulling for Q. Maybe. I guess.

Man, I hate Connecticut.

RichH
I'm OK with either winning, but I find myself pulling for Yale. Allain won't be there forever.

Shockingly disagreeing with Rich, I am pulling for Q. I hate Allain that much.

The announcers keep ignoring the two -ECAC teams in final game part and repeating, "... two schools separated by 8 miles." Just once they could add "... and 300 SAT points."

Regardless of who you are rooting for, this is a helluva game.

Q let up in the last 5 secs of the second period and Yale scores. 1-0 after two. Boola.

billhoward
Q let up in the last 5 secs of the second period and Yale scores. 1-0 after two. Boola.

This is where Pecknold pulls Tretiak, right?

Scersk '97

RichH
I'm OK with either winning, but I find myself pulling for Yale. Allain won't be there forever.

Shockingly disagreeing with Rich, I am pulling for Q. I hate Allain that much.

The kiss of death, clearly.

Ylae 3 — QU 0

Scersk '97

Scersk '97

RichH
I'm OK with either winning, but I find myself pulling for Yale. Allain won't be there forever.

Shockingly disagreeing with Rich, I am pulling for Q. I hate Allain that much.

The kiss of death, clearly.

A hatchet nail in the coffin.

Q pulls Hartzell with 7 minutes to go, still 3-0 Yale.

The argument that Mike Schafer is past his prime, I don't buy. But the things Yale is doing - skating, skating, not dropping into a shell, attacking, that's awesome.

Yes time to change more because we are are a boring team in a game that has left us and our coach behind. watch these ecac teams that have made our conference proud, and compare it to the year we made the frozen four. borrrrring. not today, go yale and it kills me to say it but we could have been there.

The first not so great year in how many years and people want Schaefer's head? Seriously, you look foolish.

Congrats to Yale -- Great day for the Ivy League and the ECAC!! Now LGR for 2013-2014!!! It WILL be a great year!

Redscore
Yes time to change more because we are are a boring team in a game that has left us and our coach behind. watch these ecac teams that have made our conference proud, and compare it to the year we made the frozen four. borrrrring. not today, go yale and it kills me to say it but we could have been there.

There was nothing boring about the 2003 team, and by saying so you reveal just how misguided you are.

Scersk '97

Redscore
Yes time to change more because we are are a boring team in a game that has left us and our coach behind. watch these ecac teams that have made our conference proud, and compare it to the year we made the frozen four. borrrrring. not today, go yale and it kills me to say it but we could have been there.

There was nothing boring about the 2003 team, and by saying so you reveal just how misguided you are.

I've been watching Cornell hockey for for over 30 years. The 2003 squad was plenty entertaining, altough with less flair than Yale generally exhibits. But that team was every bit as good as this Yale team, but things just didn't go our way in Buffalo.

Actually that was a boring team too. Just winning for a a while doesn't change anything, you are confused, not me. In the end that team lost because it was focused on stopping goals rather than scoring them..... Our style of Hockey has been boring for a while now. I love this school and the team but I cant watch anymore and I Don't ..

Redscore
Actually that was a boring team too. Just winning for a a while doesn't change anything, you are confused, not me. In the end that team lost because it was focused on stopping goals rather than scoring them..... Our style of Hockey has been boring for a while now. I love this school and the team but I cant watch anymore and I Don't ..

When your team is winning, you can put up with any style of play. When your team is losing, they may as well do it with style. Ditto for when you're watching a different team than your own.

Great night for the Ivies, for the ECAC. Also, it was a pretty good game to watch. So, onward to 2014 for Cornell. Philadelphia is only a little farther to drive than Buffalo.

Redscore
I love this school and the team but I cant watch anymore and I Don't ..

For someone who can't or doesn't watch anymore, you sure do post a lot.

At least try to back up your idiocy. Try something like this:

The 2003 team had the 16th best offense in the nation, and the nation's best scoring differential. Of course they were focused on keeping the puck out of the net—any Schafer coached team will be—but they were pretty good at putting the puck in the net too.

Man, Hartzell looked like shit tonight. Congrats to Yale. Great run through the NCAAs after totally crapping the bed in AC and almost costing themselves a spot in the tournament.

ugarte
Man, Hartzell looked like shit tonight. Congrats to Yale. Great run through the NCAAs after totally crapping the bed in AC and almost costing themselves a spot in the tournament.

Yeah, that second goal was super soft.

Scersk '97

ugarte
Man, Hartzell looked like shit tonight.

Yeah, that second goal was super soft.

And the third! Miller could have dove through the five hole with the puck in his hand. Even the first, quirky as it was, was in part because (IMO) Hartzell had gone a little slack thinking the period was over.

ugarte
And the third! Miller could have dove through the five hole with the puck in his hand. Even the first, quirky as it was, was in part because (IMO) Hartzell had gone a little slack thinking the period was over.

In Barry's "O" too. Indeed, if you're Q, how can you do that after seeing how Yale beat NoDak?

And, come to think of it, they've been doing that—turning it on at the beginnings and ends of periods—for years. I'm willing to call it an Allain "thing."

Scersk '97

Redscore
I love this school and the team but I cant watch anymore and I Don't ..

For someone who can't or doesn't watch anymore, you sure do post a lot.

At least try to back up your idiocy. Try something like this:

The 2003 team had the 16th best offense in the nation, and the nation's best scoring differential. Of course they were focused on keeping the puck out of the net—any Schafer coached team will be—but they were pretty good at putting the puck in the net too.

I respect your opinion, please don;t use the word idiocy, that is insulting but is also your opinion. One year out of twenty boring years? Blind squirrel finding a nut???

What many of you don't seem to realize is the game has evolved. Not only has Cornell gotten better and faster than the 2003 team, so has the rest of college hockey. Times do change and so does the game. The ECAC knows how to play defense and it really showed tonight. That was really fun to watch. Rare to see it at this level and at this time of year from most of the other leagues.

Tonight, Hartzell gave up goal two and three to Yale in eerily similar fashions to goals that CU scored in game one and game three of that series. Yale kept coming till they found those same weaknesses. And Malcolm was really solid all night. Not bad for a Yalie!

I know there are those who will be bitching about essentially nothing well into next season. Well, get over it! Some of us who've been watching and cheering for Cornell since before you were born are kind of tired of seeing the best forum in college hockey be denigrated by a small group of whiners. So, in a word, we've had enough, If you want to flame, taunt, and hurl personal insults -- that's what the USCHO "Fan" Forum is for -- go there! If you stay here and can be civil and be productive even if you disagree, then fine!

The bottom line is that some bright high school or junior players who watched ESPN tonight will find that they don't want to go to H,Y, or P...they will want to come to Cornell. And that will make all the difference! It will happen.

LGR -- I can't wait till next season begins.

Redscore
I respect your opinion, please don;t use the word idiocy, that is insulting but is also your opinion. One year out of twenty boring years? Blind squirrel finding a nut???

Fine, how do you feel about "lunacy?" Or maybe "jealousy?" Because it really seems like you're over-the-moon for a "style" that I've never, in all my years of watching, seen us play.

I just don't understand the hoopla over Yale's style; indeed, I find their style fun to watch too, but I also know that it's high-risk/reward. Without a bang-up goalie, as they were for some time this year and they will be next year, they're going to look very normal. Think porous WCHA team.

To me, style is immaterial: hockey isn't an art competition. Yale got it done this year; we didn't. We'll get 'em next year—when we remember how to play our style like we used to, or when our coaches tweak (not replace) our style with an eye toward perfection.

Only 6 months till next year...

scoop85

Scersk '97

Redscore
Yes time to change more because we are are a boring team in a game that has left us and our coach behind. watch these ecac teams that have made our conference proud, and compare it to the year we made the frozen four. borrrrring. not today, go yale and it kills me to say it but we could have been there.

There was nothing boring about the 2003 team, and by saying so you reveal just how misguided you are.

I've been watching Cornell hockey for for over 30 years. The 2003 squad was plenty entertaining, altough with less flair than Yale generally exhibits. But that team was every bit as good as this Yale team, but things just didn't go our way in Buffalo.

The difference that you (old) people don't understand is that Yale didn't wait until things went their way, they went out and won the fucking thing. 3OT game vs. Wisconsin, that was ours, but we waited for things to go our way. FF game vs. UNH, we did get a goal but there was a terrible call and we waited for things to go our way but they never did. That is not and should not be how things work. Fortunately for me and unfortunately for you the proof is on my side, Yale is the champion while Cornell still waits for things to go their way. Fire Schafer.

Am I the only person who really loves our style of Hockey? The vision I have of the 2003 team was not our good goal scoring, it was watching a player shoot the puck and then seeing three Cornell skaters slide into it's path as if we had four goalies. It was fantastic, and I've never seen another school be so dynamic at defense.

I'll take that over high scoring breakaway heavy games any day. 5 on 5 hockey with all the strategy that entails is where it's at. What's so interesting about a breakaway?


On another note: WOOO!! YALE!!!

It's past midnight. The moment's over. Fuck Yale, let's go Red.

Terrible, terrible season. Everything that could have possibly gone wrong, did. No one on the team seemed to have progressed. One game from a home playoff series. 80 seconds from AC. Almost every other ECAC team seemed to have gotten better. God forsaken Yale won the national championship.

Will Cornell be back next year? Probably, but it will be in spite of this absolute disaster of a season. Let's just say if I'm a highly-touted hockey recruit looking for an education, I'm choosing the champs over the regressing Red. Especially if I'm a forward. If I'm a forward, no chance in hell.

Melrose mentioned that Q loses 11 seniors from this year's team, including 4 D'men and Hartzell.

Even with the Jones bros and Peca back, that is going to be a completely different team.

I expect all the ECAC supporters on this board will be heading here to pick up the appropriate swag.

Ben
I expect all the ECAC supporters on this board will be heading here to pick up the appropriate swag.

There's a difference between being happy for your conference/league/division and being an all-out fan. I wished several Yale fans I met luck before the game, and congratulated others after the game. While a group of us were leaving the arena, we passed by some obviously exuberant Yale students, and they shouted "yeah, Ivy League!" That's what it's about. There are bonds and camaraderie that is important to some of us. We all dream of us winning some year, and I guarantee you that the same support from peers would make the experience that much sweeter. When you're here, you can either choose to be miserable or choose to enjoy the experience, and I know for a fact for me, it is much more fun to do the latter. That's what makes the college hockey community so addictive: when it comes down to it, we all love the same game, so find comfort in this awesome experience, and hope someday we get fortunate enough to experience the euphoria too.

Can't wait for October.

RichH

Ben
I expect all the ECAC supporters on this board will be heading here to pick up the appropriate swag.

There's a difference between being happy for your conference/league/division and being an all-out fan. I wished several Yale fans I met luck before the game, and congratulated others after the game. While a group of us were leaving the arena, we passed by some obviously exuberant Yale students, and they shouted "yeah, Ivy League!" That's what it's about. There are bonds and camaraderie that is important to some of us. We all dream of us winning some year, and I guarantee you that the same support from peers would make the experience that much sweeter. When you're here, you can either choose to be miserable or choose to enjoy the experience, and I know for a fact for me, it is much more fun to do the latter. That's what makes the college hockey community so addictive: when it comes down to it, we all love the same game, so find comfort in this awesome experience, and hope someday we get fortunate enough to experience the euphoria too.

Can't wait for October.

I like that making a joke turns me into a miserable git. I neither want nor expect support from the fans of any other team. If no one likes us, I won't care (like Millwall, without the hooliganism). I'll just enjoy the hockey.

Better an East team than not.
Better an ECAC team than not.
Better an Ivy team than not (ok, with the exception of Harvard).

That was a great game. Any team that can play that cleanly, with such a "short memory", and run the gauntlet that Yale did deserves what they got.

DL
Better an East team than not.
Better an ECAC team than not.
Better an Ivy team than not (ok, with the exception of Harvard).

That was a great game. Any team that can play that cleanly, with such a "short memory", and run the gauntlet that Yale did deserves what they got.

Throw "New York State" into the equation. Better Union wins than a non-NYS non-Ivy team which would mean better Union than Q. You'd sort of have to root for Syracuse against Hopkins in an NCAA lax final, or Syracuse not Michigan in a hoops final excepting that Louisville-Michigan was darned entertaining.

Trotsky
It's past midnight. The moment's over. Fuck Yale, let's go Red.

The feeling you get when you've had enough of the Kelly Clarkson-Dick Clark-Guy Lombardo New Year's Eve Special and it's time to move into the New Year, like around 12:10. How much Andre Champagne can one party drink?

Ben

I like that making a joke turns me into a miserable git.

Ha, I'm sorry. I recognize it now, but getting in at 3 am after a night of...let's say "tournament reflection," I wanted to get my thoughts on this whole thread debate down, and yours was the easiest thing to grasp in my state without lobbing any real grenades.

Alas, in the end, the Deer Ticks succumbed to Eli(me) disease.

Trotsky
It's past midnight. The moment's over. Fuck Yale, let's go Red.

I believe I said something like "my support of Yale ends the second I step out of this building."

Larry72
...tired of seeing the best forum in college hockey be denigrated by a small group of whiners. So, in a word, we've had enough, If you want to flame, taunt, and hurl personal insults -- that's what the USCHO "Fan" Forum is for -- go there! If you stay here and can be civil and be productive even if you disagree, then fine!

tretiak

Goleta!

Interesting that you picked the west-coast campus that rivals Cornell in its macabre obsession with its natural terrain (Cornell's gorges vs. UCSB's bluffs). Do the people who post pics of UCSB actually go to the beach in IV?

Well, the real beach is on the other side of campus, and when I was there was very popular with grad students for having a free parking lot closer to the Physics building than our designated parking, as long as a cop didn't see you park and walk to campus rather than the beach. (A friend of mine once got a ticket for being parked at the beach with Physics books in the back seat of his car.) The cliffs on Del Playa were similar to the gorges in that people notoriously fell off them, although in UCSB's case it was typically drunken partiers from the Halloween grope-fest doing an accidental header rather than post-exam suicides.

Josh '99

Larry72
I like our view better! Talk about thread drift!!!

Ithaca_4_1274904313.jpg

Unfortunately, you can't see the gorgeous view of our campus from our campus. Score a big one for IC's tower dorms though.

The view of the lake from the 6th floor conference room in Space Sciences is pretty nice, tough.

Josh '99

Larry72
I like our view better! Talk about thread drift!!!

Ithaca_4_1274904313.jpg

Unfortunately, you can't see the gorgeous view of our campus from our campus. Score a big one for IC's tower dorms though.

I'd rather have it that way than the other way around.

Quinnipiac T-shirts said Beat Yale. Yale T-shirts said Yale. Far fewer Yale alums wore jerseys or sweatshirts than Cornell alums. There is the argument you shouldn't wear a team jersey past age 29 or chest size 48.

billhoward

DL
Better an East team than not.
Better an ECAC team than not.
Better an Ivy team than not (ok, with the exception of Harvard).

That was a great game. Any team that can play that cleanly, with such a "short memory", and run the gauntlet that Yale did deserves what they got.

Throw "New York State" into the equation. Better Union wins than a non-NYS non-Ivy team which would mean better Union than Q. You'd sort of have to root for Syracuse against Hopkins in an NCAA lax final, or Syracuse not Michigan in a hoops final excepting that Louisville-Michigan was darned entertaining.

I'd be inclined towards any of the other NYS teams in the ECAC except Union, but then I think this actually manifests itself in supporting the other teams that have been in the ECAC since before the Great Divorce, which is now down to Colgate, RPI, CCT, SLU, and the other five ivies.

BTW, if Hockey Least wants to poach Quinnipiac, I'm sure RIT would love to take their spot, although it would probably leave Princeton and Colgate as travel partners...

So (I use that word a lot), one of the things that seems to distinguish some of the disagreements, on a couple of these threads, (I also use a lot of commas) is offense versus defense. That also seems to hold with awards. Why is it that the offense always seems to get the awards. To me giving Miller the MVP yesterday epitomizes that. I would have picked Malcolm in a landslide. He was spectacular in stopping a couple of goals. Yales defense falls apart without him, and they lose the game. Yeah they scored 4 goals, but the first 2 were totally becaue of Q's defense and goalie going asleep, not because of Yale's great offense. Don't get me wrong, Yale has a great offense, but without Malcolm playing as well as he does, they lose. He's the MVP.

jtwcornell91

billhoward

DL
Better an East team than not.
Better an ECAC team than not.
Better an Ivy team than not (ok, with the exception of Harvard).

That was a great game. Any team that can play that cleanly, with such a "short memory", and run the gauntlet that Yale did deserves what they got.

Throw "New York State" into the equation. Better Union wins than a non-NYS non-Ivy team which would mean better Union than Q. You'd sort of have to root for Syracuse against Hopkins in an NCAA lax final, or Syracuse not Michigan in a hoops final excepting that Louisville-Michigan was darned entertaining.

I'd be inclined towards any of the other NYS teams in the ECAC except Union, but then I think this actually manifests itself in supporting the other teams that have been in the ECAC since before the Great Divorce, which is now down to Colgate, RPI, CCT, SLU, and the other five ivies.

BTW, if Hockey Least wants to poach Quinnipiac, I'm sure RIT would love to take their spot, although it would probably leave Princeton and Colgate as travel partners...

I'm with you on this (not "U". And if it has to come down to only NY staters, I'd pick the classiest team+fan combo with the longest history and the longest drought. I guess it's about loyalty first, then spreading the love to those who represent well.

billhoward
Quinnipiac T-shirts said Beat Yale. Yale T-shirts said Yale. Far fewer Yale alums wore jerseys or sweatshirts than Cornell alums. There is the argument you shouldn't wear a team jersey past age 29 or chest size 48.

I know that Quinnipiac considers Yale to be their biggest rival and Yale's reaction is "You're not Harvard." I really hope this game doesn't change that dynamic because it amuses me. If Quinnipiac had won, it might have, but I think a Yale victory seals the lack of rivalry.

billhoward
There is the argument you shouldn't wear a team jersey past age 29 or chest size 48.

You'll pry my team jersey from my cold, dead fingers.

(Really it's one of many things you can get away with again once you pass 50 without it being creepy. 50 is liberating -- it's like being a grandfather (all too close in actuality) and suddenly you're wauint rather than skeevy.)

jtn27

billhoward
Quinnipiac T-shirts said Beat Yale. Yale T-shirts said Yale. Far fewer Yale alums wore jerseys or sweatshirts than Cornell alums. There is the argument you shouldn't wear a team jersey past age 29 or chest size 48.

I know that Quinnipiac considers Yale to be their biggest rival and Yale's reaction is "You're not Harvard." I really hope this game doesn't change that dynamic because it amuses me. If Quinnipiac had won, it might have, but I think a Yale victory seals the lack of rivalry.

Well, the Yale crowd did start a "Harvard sucks" chant. We managed to pick it up and join them after 1 round.

Well, the real beach is on the other side of campus, and when I was there was very popular with grad students for having a free parking lot closer to the Physics building than our designated parking, as long as a cop didn't see you park and walk to campus rather than the beach. (A friend of mine once got a ticket for being parked at the beach with Physics books in the back seat of his car.) The cliffs on Del Playa were similar to the gorges in that people notoriously fell off them, although in UCSB's case it was typically drunken partiers from the Halloween grope-fest doing an accidental header rather than post-exam suicides.

Cops monitor Goleta beach hourly now - I'm a grad student a few months away from getting out of this Elysian gulag for good. 3 undergrads already cliff-dove off DP this year. Looks like we're in for a shitstorm circa Cornell 2010.

What's the difference between Cornell and UCSB? When a Cornell student dies, people assume the Cornell student did it on purpose. People assume UCSB was an accident.