Interesting thoughts from Adam Wodon (USCHO Chat)

[veeman5]

http://www.cstv.com/chat/032006aaa.html

Vinod (New York): As a person that is very familiar with the Big Red, what do you feel their prospects are for capturing a national championship within the next few years? Have they attained all that they can with the 2003 / 2005 runs as long as they play within the current system? As a Big Red fan, I am searching for the light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for your thoughts.

Adam Wodon: I'd hate to say it's impossible for them to do it, but the 2003 team was a very special team, and getting back to that level is very, very difficult for Cornell to accomplish. They had a great balance of skill, toughness, smarts, leadership and goaltending that they are going to need to achieve it. Players like Doug Murray, Stephen Baby and Mark McRae don't come around all that often. I think Cornell is recruiting a lot more skill than ever before, but Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc. are always going to recruit more of it -- so it would take something extra ... and that's what this group -- as good as it is -- doesn't have that the 2003 group did. Whether the new recruits turn into that, we'll see. But the crop over the next two years has as much talent as Cornell has ever brought in. Can they get a Hobey-caliber goalie again? That remains to be seen, too.

[cmoberg]

Well, I for one would welcome the fire power that I was accustomed to as a student 75-79.  Quite common to score 6 or more goals in a game.  Shooters by the names of Vaughn, Nethery, Kerling, and Shier. The goalies were darn good back then too.

Skilled goal scoring forwards with hard hitting blue liners and we would be a force to be reckoned with.

Chris

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

[quote cmoberg]Well, I for one would welcome the fire power that I was accustomed to as a student 75-79.  Quite common to score 6 or more goals in a game.  Shooters by the names of Vaughn, Nethery, Kerling, and Shier. The goalies were darn good back then too.

Skilled goal scoring forwards with hard hitting blue liners and we would be a force to be reckoned with.

Chris[/quote]

Ahh the good old days.  One of my favorite memories was beating Sucks 11-4, with a hat trick by some guy named Tredway.  :-P

[billhoward]

[quote Jeff Hopkins '82][quote cmoberg]Well, I for one would welcome the fire power that I was accustomed to as a student 75-79.  Quite common to score 6 or more goals in a game.  Shooters by the names of Vaughn, Nethery, Kerling, and Shier. The goalies were darn good back then too.

Skilled goal scoring forwards with hard hitting blue liners and we would be a force to be reckoned with.

Chris[/quote]

Ahh the good old days.  One of my favorite memories was beating Sucks 11-4, with a hat trick by some guy named Tredway.  :-P[/quote]

What's this thing called "Cornell hat trick"? I see it mentioned in archives.

[dbilmes]

[quote cmoberg] The goalies were darn good back then too.


Chris[/quote]


You must not have been watching the same goalies I was during the mid-to-late '70s! I remember goalies like Vandermark and Napier, for whom no lead was safe. The games were much more entertaining since they were higher scoring, but the shaky defense and goaltending always caught up with us in the ECAC playoffs (i.e. the memorable 10-9 double overtime loss to UNH in the ECAC semifinals).

[Killer]

Ah yes, and I have a puck from an 8-4 victory over Sucks, I believe in '77 (have to find it and read the faded writing on the tape).  It was nice to see those goals pile up.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote cmoberg]Well, I for one would welcome the fire power that I was accustomed to as a student 75-79.  Quite common to score 6 or more goals in a game.  Shooters by the names of Vaughn, Nethery, Kerling, and Shier. The goalies were darn good back then too.

Skilled goal scoring forwards with hard hitting blue liners and we would be a force to be reckoned with.

Chris[/quote]Yeah the good old years. In 75-79 we finished 5,3,2,3 in the regular season and 3,3,-,3 in the tourney. That is we never made it to the championship game. I'll take today anytime.

[cmoberg]

As I worked for Cornell into the mid 80s, I may be confusing my goalie memories. Seems Hayward and Elliot were pretty good.

Chris

[cmoberg]

The mid to late 70s was a cool down period in Cornell Hockey history. Dick Bertrand was not able to sustain the prowess of the teams of the late 60 and early 70s.  However, it was exciting hockey to watch but frustrating come playoff time.

What "wins" in hockey seems to be cyclic.  Strong Offense, Strong Defense, Good Offense/Good Defense, etc.  From the makeup of our recruits we are transforming from a Defense centric team with better balance between offense and defense.  This will better position us to take on the Western powers.  In some way I think Harvard is ahead of us in this transformation.

Chris '79

[billhoward]

[quote cmoberg]The mid to late 70s was a cool down period in Cornell Hockey history. Dick Bertrand was not able to sustain the prowess of the teams of the late 60 and early 70s.  However, it was exciting hockey to watch but frustrating come playoff time.

What "wins" in hockey seems to be cyclic.  Strong Offense, Strong Defense, Good Offense/Good Defense, etc.  From the makeup of our recruits we are transforming from a Defense centric team with better balance between offense and defense.  This will better position us to take on the Western powers.  In some way I think Harvard is ahead of us in this transformation.

Chris '79[/quote]

Teams also have to adapt themselves to changes in the games and the rules. If we saw more 200x85 surfaces for championships or if (more likely) we saw stricter penalty enforcement, we'd want to change to a faster team, whether we were a rugged, hard-hitting team (our perspective) or a clutch-and-grab, borderline-rules team (some outside observers' perspectives).

Schafer is still right that if a key metric is shots-per-sixty (allowed to reach the goalie), you're going to do well. But if that's your No. 1 focus and if you don't have the defensive skills to play that way, you're in trouble. Also, when you play for 2-1 victories, the bounce of the puck means you're going to play the same twice in a row and win 2-1 then lose 3-2. And when you find yourself down by a goal with 10 or 5 minutes to play in a key game, you have that sinking you're not going to get the tying goal.

One wonders if the solid style of play discourages star-caliber forwards from considering Cornell. You hear that said in college basketball about teams that play the deliberate Princeton style, such as Bill Carmody's Northwestern Team. Players want to win 92-85, not 51-46.

The other Cornell advantage, at least versus other ECACHL teams, is that we have so many good players that we can skate four lines and if the game is close going into the final period, we're fresh and they're tired. Didn't you notice how the Harvard players had trouble skating back to the bench after their fourth, fifth, and sixth goals? If the game had gone five periods, we probably would have caught up.

[The Rancor]

[Q] [quote billhoward][quote cmoberg]
One wonders if the solid style of play discourages star-caliber forwards from considering Cornell. You hear that said in college basketball about teams that play the deliberate Princeton style, such as Bill Carmody's Northwestern Team. Players want to win 92-85, not 51-46.[/quote][/Q]


I wonder sometimes why with, say, seven minutes left Schafer does not 'unleash the dogs of war' and let hes shooters score. for example, Iggy last season came out of nowhere to score left and right, and then as an undrafted player makes the sharks (well, Cleveland) and in interview alludes to wishing he could open up the scoring more when at Cornell. i'm not saying to throw the playbook in Cascadilla Gorge, but let 'em score mike!

[Beeeej]

[quote The Rancor]I wonder sometimes why with, say, seven minutes left Schafer does not 'unleash the dogs of war' and let hes shooters score. for example, Iggy last season came out of nowhere to score left and right, and then as an undrafted player makes the sharks (well, Cleveland) and in interview alludes to wishing he could open up the scoring more when at Cornell. i'm not saying to throw the playbook in Cascadilla Gorge, but let 'em score mike![/quote]

You say that as if scoring involves nothing more than a conscious decision to go ahead and score.  Did you think the team takes shots on net without actually intending to score?  There is (usually) another team on the ice, you know.

Beeeej

[The Rancor]

i think the team takes too few shots (of quality and in general), holds the puck too long and does not create enough odd man rushes- because they are a defensive minded team, not and offensive minded one. I think the Schafer game plan is score 2 or 3 and shut em down, not lets get up 5-3 and keep hammering the net. how many times have i been pulling my hair out yelling "shoot! shoot! just shoot the frigging puck! ahhh!" ?

[RatushnyFan]

I think that Bitz needs to stand in front of the net a la Bertuzzi circa 2002.  Dude, you're huge!!!  Screen the goalie and fight for some rebounds.

[Beeeej]

[quote The Rancor]i think the team takes too few shots (of quality and in general), holds the puck too long and does not create enough odd man rushes- because they are a defensive minded team, not and offensive minded one.[/quote]

Then you hopefully recognize that every step Schafer takes toward an offensive-minded team takes away from the power of our defense.  Like I said, it's not just a matter of turning on a faucet and "letting" them score.

And fans who scream "shoot" are, IMHO, among the most annoying people on earth.  The guys wearing the skates generally have a better idea than you do of whether it's the right time to take a shot.  Would I like them to shoot more often and score more often?  Absolutely.  But in general, I trust them to know when a shot is worth taking.  They have a better view.

This Cornell team has a far greater need to work on cycling the puck better in the PP to open up potentially good shot opportunities than they do simply to take more shots.

Beeeej