What The Hell Do I Do? Injustice Maybe?

[jtwcornell91]

[Q]ctenah Wrote:
But to kick someone out for saying asshole along with 2000 other fans, yet simply yell at a crude fan for saying the goalie's grandfather fucked his dad is....well, horrible.

Thanks to everyone for their support in this matter.  If any members of the athletic department are reading this, as I'm sure they are, then I ask them to be fairer in the future.  Making examples of the most die-hard fans, including others unnamed here, simply for the sake of making an example is further deleterious to the positive crowd support of the team.[/q]

I fear that from there point of view, making the pointless example is more useful.  If you throw out the one asshole accusing the other goalie's family of incest or threatening to "fucking kill" the ref's family, you get rid of one guy that most people think has gone to far.  If you randomly throw out one fan out of 1000 who says "asshole", you make the other 999 think twice. :-(

For my part, I think you shouldn't call a penalized opponent an asshole unless he really deserves it.  I almost did to to Abdelkader when he got thrown out of the second MSU game, but there was an usher staring right at  me, so I called the guy a punk instead.

[Rosey]

[Q]
I fear that from there point of view, making the pointless example is more useful.  If you throw out the one asshole accusing the other goalie's family of incest or threatening to "fucking kill" the ref's family, you get rid of one guy that most people think has gone to far.  If you randomly throw out one fan out of 1000 who says "asshole", you make the other 999 think twice. [/q]
I think you're presuming too much logic on the part of the goons in charge of the gestapo.

FWIW, I'm very glad I was a student in the mid-late 90's instead of now, simply because I probably have the dubious distinction of not having been thrown out for screaming out possibly the most offensive anti-goalie screed ever shouted in Lynah.  I don't think I would have gotten away with it over the past few years.

Kyle

[Matthew Janiga]

Clearly this is an adhesion contract.  If you really want to confuse the JA board, throw around terms like "unconscionability" at your hearing, and "unfair bargaining power."  You could try to make a case that as a sports fan, Cornell has unfairly limited your rights due to its superior position to formulate the ticket-holder's contract. Of course, this argument isn't likely to hold water since I don't think its ever worked for any other sporting venue, or even been tried for that matter.

It is possible to say that the terms were not expressly (actually) listed on your ticket.  Look to see if "swearing" or some other description of saying the word asshole is actually there.  If it is not, then they have no right to remove you from the game for this.  If the term is vague, such as disorderly conduct, bring a dictionary to your hearing and define the words.  Try to show how your action, admist a crowd of 3k could not possible amount to disorderly conduct, especially when there were other actors in the arena doing the same or worse.  

Additionally, ask for a copy of the pre-game announcement.  If they didn't give you express notice of the zero-tolerance policy, it seems unfair and in "bad faith" that they would choose to enforce it.  Common law supports the concept that contracts formed in bad faith cannot be enforced, i.e., they cannot legally take away your season tickets.

You should also check to see if the consequences of such vulgar language are expressly (again, actually) written on the back of the ticket.  If it doesn't say that you could lose your tickets for an entire season, then CU athletics is introducing a new contract term.   Modification of a written agreement often requires consideration (most often expressed through a bargained for exchange -- like the money you paid for tickets -- or a benefit/detriment -- like you giving up your first amendment right to swear in exchange for the right to see the game).   Past consideration -- such as your previous payment for season tickets -- should not be able to count as consideration for modifciation of the contract.  

They might counter the modifcation or expressly written arguments by referring you to the athletic's website or to the student handbook.  Again, if your ticket does not tell you to see the student handbook or athletics website for further information, then they are not giving you express notice of the policies.

---

You could also claim that by not removing other students who were actually saying "asshole,"  Cornell had implied authorization of such a phrase.  This especially holds true if your usher in question was around (visible to you) during these instances, yet did nothing.  Additionally, if Cornell administrators were at the game, and saw this usher just standing there, and did nothing to reprimand him, then it would seem as though they ratified his actions as an agent of the University.  It could be implied, therefore, that Cornell has ratified the use of the Word asshole in Lynah Rink.

(Admittedly this is a bit of a stretch of Contract law.)

---

From a procedural standpoint, find out if the JA board operates like a court of law.  If so, then Cornell must prove, in a manner more reasonable than not (so more than 50-percent), that you actually said the word asshole.  If the question can be disputed, such as if you can bring a friend - or even better yet an impartial person such as the guy who stands in front of you -- to say that "This guy always says crass-mole, not asshole"  then you have created a controversy of fact.  Procedurally, you should exploit this to say that it is equally plausible you have said the word asshole, and that you have not (since it is just one party's word against the other's).  In this regard, Cornell University Athletics has not met its burden of production of proving you said the word asshole, and the matter does not deserve the time of the JA board, or any other judicial authority at Cornell.

If they acknowledge that they are introducing a new contract term, you could also reintroduce the unconscionability concept for this term.  Cornell, with its superior and unquestioned bargaining power, has unfairly adhered you to this new contract term.

Additonally, you might be able to satisfy the legal elements of undue influence or duress.  Of course, if you want legal advice that holds water you should Beej.  He's further along in his legal career than I am.

Sincerely,
Matt Janiga
Cornell '05
UMN Law '08

P.S. If University Adminstrators are reading this, please know that I am also disapointed in you.

P.P.S.  Professor Grossman, if you're reading this, and you agree with my legal analysis, could you see your way to possibly revising my Business Law grades?  

[RazzBaronZ]

Janiga,

Very entertaining.

[DeltaOne81]

Matt? You're at UMinn?? Speaking of being disappointed :-P

- Fred :-)

[cornelldavy]

Janiga, studying for your contracts final? You 1Ls think you know everything. ;-)


***

[Q]ben03 Wrote:
in fact a few seasons ago (‘02-‘03), some might remember nathan marsters not facing the fag during the anthems[/q]

that's a damn funny typo.

and by the way, the discussion about respecting the anthem reminds me of the following exchange from Slap Shot:

[Referee skates over to Steve Hanson during the playing of the National Anthem]
Peterboro Referee: Got my eye on the three of you. You pull one thing, you're out of this game. I run a clean game here. I have any trouble here, I'll suspend ya.
Steve Hanson: I'm listening to the fucking song!

[Ack]

[Q]ben03 Wrote:

 i've never had a problem telling complete strangers that they are being disrespectful regardless of how much of an ass i may look like in the process. in fact a few seasons ago (‘02-‘03), some might remember nathan marsters not facing the fag during the anthems … i politely reminded him he was being disrespectful ... asshole[/q]

try "flag"

[LynahFaithfulS]

[q]It is possible to say that the terms were not  expressly (actually) listed on your ticket. Look to see if "swearing" or some other description of saying the word asshole is actually there...You should also check to see if the consequences of such vulgar language are expressly (again, actually) written on the back of the ticket.[/q]
do keep in mind that i agree ctenah getting kicked out is a load of crap... but the ticket says (in part):

TO THE HOLDER OF THIS TICKET
This ticket is a revocable license which may be withdrawn at any time for any reason.  No alcoholic beverages, containers, coolers, controlled substances, weapons etc. will be allowed on the premises. Any person who engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct such as profanity and abusive or threatening language , or the throwing of objects, shall be subject to removal without refund.

(N.B. bold formatting is my addition, not on the ticket)
[q] Additionally, ask for a copy of the pre-game announcement.  If they didn't give you express notice of the zero-tolerance policy, it seems unfair and in "bad faith" that they would choose to enforce it. [/q]
while I don't have a copy of that announcement, I am pretty sure they do say there is a zero-tolerance policy.

[ftyuv]

[Q]Annoying email message Wrote:

To:       Men’s ice hockey student season ticket holders
 
From:   Cornell Athletics
 
Subject:  Important Lynah Rink reminders

New York State law and the Cornell Campus Code require you exit the rink in an orderly manner when an alarm sounds.
 Please note the policy of zero tolerance for:

Throwing objects on the ice.  If you are caught throwing anything, you will be ejected from the game, lose your season tickets and be responsible for Cornell’s team being penalized for delay of game.

Profane or threatening language, signs or gestures.  If you are identified, you will be ejected from the game, lose your season tickets and be referred to the judicial administrator.

Thank you for your positive support of Big Red Hockey.
 [/q]
(bold added)

Unfortunately, they do say exactly what you can't do and exactly what will happen to you if they catch you doing it.  I've never dealt with these people myself, but it sounds to me like your pseudolegal case is just about zilch, and your best bet would be to throw yourself at their knees and beg for mercy.

But as someone above pointed out, what are they going to do to revoke your season pass?  Make you give back all your tickets?  What stops you from saying "oh sorry, I was walking to class and I accidentally dropped them in the gorge"?

[Beeeej]

[Q]Matthew Janiga Wrote:
Additonally, you might be able to satisfy the legal elements of undue influence or duress.  Of course, if you want legal advice that holds water you should Beej.  He's further along in his legal career than I am.
[/q]

First of all, it's illegal for you to be giving legal advice.

Second, it's still illegal for me to be giving legal advice.  I passed the Bar exam, like, five minutes ago.

Beeeej

[billhoward]

Matt, what an amazingly thoughtful load of BS. And I thought I was laying in on thick. Your deconstruction of Cornell's case indicates you'll go far in your chosen profession and stands as an eloquent rebuke to those who say Sun writers can't write. Actually, this was nice stuff. Maybe you can be available if the cowbell team gets hassled in what we hope is never again a return to Mariucci.

I didn't see legal advice being offered. It was scholarly insight into the Cornell condition.

[A-19]

at the very least, if it's not illegal, it's a matter of bad public policy

the 2 random curses throughout a 3 hour game:
1. add to the atmosphere without being michigan-like overkill
2. can't be heard clearly across the ice anyway
3. and the ithaca parents should learn to toughen up and stop bitching about their kids' sensitive ears. these are the same people that cry about the janet jackson thing. in the course of your child's life, he is destined to hear the word "asshole" - most likely from his friends or parents or busdriver. in a world of bigotry and terrorism and school shootings, you gotta pick your battles. no game where your players are essentially encouraged to beat the crap out of the other team and your students spend most of the game personally berating the opposing players can possibly be called a family atmosphere.

-mike '04

[oceanst41]

So people in row 5 were kicked farther back too?

[cmoberg]

Wasn't it in the movie Meet the Fockers that the baby learns the dreaded word.  If memory serves, that movie has a PG-13 rating.  So I guess Cornell is shooting for a "G" rated Hockey experience.

Chris  

[ben03]

thanks for the spell check