What The Hell Do I Do? Injustice Maybe?

[ctenah]

I don't even remember anymore.  I definitely said goon.  Though, as I've mentioned, I cupped my mouth with my left hand and faced the right and pointed.  The usher was on my left.  So the whole "covering your mouth thing" doesn't seem to work then.  I'm just amazed that this guy would pick me out of the entire crowd to set an example.  

And yes, I am a freshman season ticket holder.::rolleyes::  The Dennis guy did mention something about how I had been warned 6 times, including on the back of my ticket and from the email and such. *shrug*

I guess here's my chance to fight The Man.

[redhair34]

[Q]ctenah Wrote:

 I don't even remember anymore.[/q]

If you do remember and you said that evil, evil word they don't allow in G Rated movies DON'T incriminate yourself on this forum...I wouldn't be suprised if athletics is watching::uhoh:: .  Let's hope you're the only one who got tossed.  If that's the case it would be pretty easy to identify you.  Even if they can't trace it to you, they'd be more inclined to be tough on you.

[Doug \'08]

Almost the exact same thing happened to me last night.  An usher that remembered me from last year tried to throw me out again for the asshole chant.  He also mentioned this zero tolerance policy.

Somehow I talked my way out of it (I guess I knew the right things to say after last year), but it wasn't pretty, and I was most pissed off that I missed our one and only goal.  I guess the only advice I have would be to tell Gene the truth and tell him that you have learned your lesson and have passed it on to others too.

As far as the JA thing, I wouldn't really worry about it even if you do end up getting JAed.  I am an RA so I have plenty of experiance with the JA system, this first time will be nothing more than a slap on the wrist.  

[oceanst41]

The ushers were also pretty hardcore about not allowing any standing on the concrete in front of the glass in A and B for the first time I can remember. I don't know if it was like that in D,E, and F, but it sure was in A and B. The woman usher in A told us is was enacted as of Friday night, for an incident that happen in the Union game. We found out later that it may have had something to do with the fan in B getting hit by the puck. Later in the game Saturday that same old usher then walked down the first row of A asking to see everyone's ticket to verify their seats. This was even though everyone was standing comfortably on the bench. After booting a few friends a few rows back in A, we discussed this policy with him. He basically said his hands were tied and he was being forced to do it, but "if we could fit them on the bench" then he didn't care.

All in all, it sounds like the Lynah staff were asked to bump up the police patrol in the student section ::rolleyes::

[jy3]

[Q]Ben Rocky 04 Wrote:

 Unfortunately, there isn't such a thing as 'free speech' on private property.[/q]
 
actually, isnt land grant institution land technically publicly owned? i am not sure...
i think the whole thing is just silly but we wont get into the whole profanity/language debate.
i would say that the best thing to do would be
a) tell the truth
b) if you said it say that those around you had said it 21 times before this season (or however many powerplays we have had at home) and nothing had happened to them. how can they enforce a zero tolerance policy without warning those being policed about this zero tolerance policy - if the whole point of this zero tolerance policy is to get people to stop saying asshole then wouldnt warning the students about this new policy partially take care of the problem by scaring people into not saying asshole?
this argument can hold even if u didnt say it
c) i say bunghole usually. how can they tell asshole from bunghole in a mass of people? i say a lot of things at hockey games, as some of you know, but even when I was still on the hill i stopped saying "fuck em up fuck em up" and "asshole" b/c the athletics department asked me to. respect should be given when it is expected to be received.
d) good luck with this, i would suggest you just swap tickets with someone from another section...
e) with the JA just state that even if u didnt say asshole, u learned your lesson and will avoid this type of language for the future.

[sen '08]

What does standing on the concrete have to do with getting hit in the head with a puck? ::screwy::

[billhoward]

After a losing a battle, didn't the French shoot every tenth soldier "pour encouragez les autres"? Cornell may be trying this here.

Suggestions for a person trying to contest the charge:

If you want to be contentious (is this what you really want?): You might get Cornell to clarify what exactly are forbidden words. You could ask them to provide the list and any logic behind it. Cornell may use the the Animal House logic about the words being too gross and disgusting to cite in public. Find out if the roots are also forbidden. Is "horse's ass" not unacceptable? At some point, you might burn up so much time it's not worth pursuing the case - maybe. What are the JA rules about whether you have a right to confront your accusers? Can you subpoena Andy Noel and Gene Nighman and the head usher and the usher who escorted you? If they don’t have to show, you can point out that there’s a lack of clarity behind the policy and Cornell was unable to provide that clarity, suggesting Cornell isn't taking this seriously enough when it had a wonderful opportunity to provide insight for all students through this hearing.

It's been a while since I've been on campus, but are JA procedures closed? Do you get to call in the other side? You might ask that it be open. Invite the Sun and the Journal. Maybe USCHO would like to do a feature on it. Make the Cornell judicial system prove it. Remember to use words such as apparently, alleged, purported, supposed, situation, alleged incident. If you do get to call the other guys: What is the witness' skill as a lip-reader? What is his/her vision - is that with or without eyeglasses and were they worn that night? How good is his or her hearing? How old is he? Was he/she a student here? When was that? Were the defendant's hands cupped around his/her lips making it hard to see the lips? Out of a list of 10 commonly used words you silently speak, how many can the witness make out?  

Don't ask questions where you don't know the answer, such as, "What led you [usher] to focus in on me?" Maybe he'll say he saw the defendant mouthing obscenities three times before. If a person with your name or e-mail address appears to have made an admission online, let them prove it was you and not a person who hijacked your email address. Let them subpoena eLynah records and let eLynah ignore them since this is not a court of law.

You might tread modeslty down the “why single out me?” path, indirectly. Ask for the usher’s, or head usher’s, or Andy Noel’s count of how often there are allegedly objectionable phrases uttered. Ask how many persons have been ejected. Ask how many persons then have gone unscathed. You want to leave the impression of “highly selective enforcement.” Ask if the usher received any instructions before this past weekend that differed from what they'd been told to do in previoius games. Cops are allowed to pick out every tenth speeder, but if it’s every hundredth speeder then it’s becoming highly selective. Although when you applied, you were told Cornell is a highly selective university.

Since this is an informal hearing outside the public judicial system, the university may opt not to play by the rules codified by the founding fathers. Hearsay and innuendo may be fine as far as the university is concerned.

It wouldn't hurt to get some legal training, like talking to someone in ILR or watching My Cousin Vinnie and also the trial scene in Animal House. If you can get Marisa Tomei to attend the hearing, good for you.

Maybe you don’t want to be contentious:

Overall, you may have to decide if you want to prove a point … or retain your tickets. (Remember the old Billy Joel line about "the angry young man with his fist in the air and his head in the sand"). Since this is an informal hearing, it wouldn't hurt to express remorse if there was the appearance of the situation that led the usher to believe the alleged situation. And if the hearing has a negative outcome, further remorse might get your tickets back.

Lastly, consider the possibility that Cornell is in the right here. Maybe Cornell wants to encourage good-natured sportsmanship and cheering and Cornell is within its rights to shape crowd behavior. In other words, whether or not you’re getting screwed, maybe it is for the common good and maybe Cornell is right on this one. Maybe. If so, remorse gives them and you an out if you want to get back in.

Remember: It's Just A Game. The fans shouldn't take it more seriously than the players. I'm an older alum now and I hope you get to see the rest of the season, but for the couple games I come back for and the ones I see on the road, I really enjoy seeing good-natured, not mean-spirited, rivalries. I like the cowbell and the Pep Band and fans yelling "you-you-you" at a penalized opponent. I like when the fans yell "Red!" during the anthem and I also understand how older fans, especially if they served and especially if they got shot at, might bristle at that. We all have to embrace diversity.

Also, until the Big Red catches fire, you haven’t missed a lot.

[MB]

Quantum tunneling with a puck.  I mean, it could happen...

[oceanst41]

That's what we said. They told us it was because it took a while for EMS to get to the girl in B. If she was in the middle of the section anyway, then it would be just as difficult to get to her there. At least it is a better reason than what they've come up with for not swearing during Gary Glitter and "See ya."

[jaybert]

I got kicked out a couple years ago (as did my friend) for the same thing.  The usher decided it was ok to grab my arm and "escort" me out.  He took me to some guy who asked for my student ID where he took down my name and confiscated my ticket for that game.  He said if it happened again they would take my season tickets.  Of course this wouldnt be possible since I was not on the record as ever purchasing tickets (my friend bought them, and I paid him for them).  It happened a lot two years ago during the 2003-2004 season, I saw a bunch of people in B get kicked out.  Whenever we do the cheers now, I look around before I yell anything.  

But really...how would he know if you yelled "ASSHOLE" or 'A-HOLE"? I doubt any of them are trained lip readers.  Even so, just by lip movements, you cant really tell what someone is saying without context.  "I LOVE YOU" and "I LOVE JUICE" have the same lip/mouth movements.  

[Jordan 04]

BOAT-SHIP

BOAT-SHIP

[A-ron]

Unfortunately, there's really nothing to do at this point.  The only positive thing to take from this is that it's nothing new: http://www.cornellsun.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/11/26/108143304640755bd6a9139?in_archive=1

From what I heard from people at the game, the ushers were even claiming that "sucks" is a bad word.  Maybe istead of "RPI sucks" we'll just have to yell "RPI is not playing to their full potential but that's not their fault since the playing field isn't level but that's OK since there's lots of room for improvement, better luck next time."  Maybe that will calm the overly agressive fan enforcement policy initiated all because some assholes threw bottles on the ice.  Oops, I said assholes, does this mean my elynah posting ability will be taken away?

[Facetimer]

[Q]ctenah Wrote:

 I was ejected from the game, escorted out by a cop, JA'd, and had my season tickets invalidated.  Why?  I said the word asshole. I'll explain the story amidst my uncontrollable anger and confusion.

The 90 year old usher between A and B was standing in row 1 in the A/B aisle.  A rowdy fan in front of me went into an attack on the opposite sieve that he was "bent over like his father did for his grandfather, and like he does for his father" or something of that nature.  Basically, the Faithful member used some pretty heavy and crude sexual references.  Old usher dude (hereby referred to as Dick) went over and chastised the fan for language.  He walked back over to the aisle.

Six or seven minutes later, I participated, along with about 1500 other fans, in the "See you asshole, you goon" bit.  The usher walked up three rows, then went all the way from the aisle and came up to me and told me to follow him.  After repeatedly asking him "What did I do, what did I say", he continued to refuse me the right to know what my crime was on the basis that it was too offensive.  Finally, in the athletic office, he admitted I said "asshole".   This guy Dennis came in, mentioned something about a zero tolerance policy being enacted yesterday, and how I'll lose my season tickets and I'll be JA'd.  



I'm absolutely hysterically angry.  The usher said he saw me cup my mouth and point at the penalty box and yell that.  Yet if he was on my left, and I cupped my mouth, he couldn't have seen what I mouthed.  What do I do? What the hell do I do when the athletic department makes such an unfair example out of me?

Any suggestions, ideas, thoughts?     [/q]



Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, see ya asshole ...

[missy]

From what I heard last night.  Bullshit is ok.  If we said Asshole or Fuck we were out.  

[sen '08]

She was in the middle of the section, but EMS didn't even try to get to her in B.  And usher and friend escorted her up to the office where the EMS were able to attend to her.....strange they made a rule out of it...