lax tourney

[dadeo]

and here i thought the NCAA hockey tournament was screwy with our laborious trip to Minneapolis.

How are we ranked #3 in the polls, we beat Syracuse, and we dont even get in the top 8 in the tournament.??

Can someone tell me if that makes any sense whatsoever?

Thanks
Dave '02

LGR

[DeltaOne81]

I'm not sure if it makes sense. I'll wait for someone who's gone through the process to explain it all. The win against Syracuse gives us a top 6-10 win. The win against Notre Dame gives us an 11-15 win. 0-1-1. I don't know how that compares but I woulda thought it would mean more.

[scoop85]

Well, other than the preposterous fact that we have to travel to Towson, I think the bracket is ok.  I would much rather have the chance to play Duke at Princeton than play Hopkins at their place.  But first things first, and use this disrepect as a motivational tool to take this tournament by storm.

Looking at Towson's record, nothing there gives me any clue as to why they got the #7 seed, other than the fact that they played Maryland, Virginia and Hopkins (and lost all those games).  They twice beat Villanova by 1 goal, and beat Rutgers by 1.  They were lauded for losing to Hopkins by only 4, but Hopkins hardly blew out anyone this year.

I think the Red will be angry and looking to put a serious hurt on somebody.  

[Hillel Hoffmann]

I like this matchup for Cornell.

A few tidbits about Towson:

They are very, very young.

One of their leading scorers is the son (I think) of Cornell lax great Norm Engelke '81.

Their coach is former Ivy bonephone Tony Seaman. I always disliked him when he was at Penn.

I have always liked their stadium.

[Al DeFlorio]

Interestingly, the nine teams seeded (apparently, as they didn't assign seeding numbers to the visiting teams) ahead of Cornell were the nine with higher RPIs.  The trick seems to be to schedule the toughest teams but make sure you have enough teams you can beat so you finish at .500 or above.  UNC, despite having a 5-8 record, finished 11th--just behind Cornell--in RPI.  Doesn't matter if you lose to top teams, as long as you play 'em to pad your RPI--and win enough other games to hit the .500 mark.

I do think Hillel's right:  better to play Towson away than Syracuse at home--or UMass at UMass, for that matter.

[Al DeFlorio]

Here's a link to final tabulation of RPI, SOS, and "quality wins."  Looking at Towson, it sure appears the first two were the difference-makers this year.

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?pagerid=2&news=fdetail&storyid=88607

[Al DeFlorio]

Towson athletics web site says the game is "tentatively" scheduled for Saturday night at 7:30pm.

http://www.towsontigers.com/sports/mlacrosse/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=9260

[Hillel Hoffmann]

[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote:

 Towson athletics web site says the game is "tentatively" scheduled for Saturday night at 7:30pm.[/q]
I'm not surprised. Towson always plays a lot of their home games at night. It has been a shtick of theirs for a long time. Their venue, Unitas Stadium (nee Minnegan), is a cozy pseudo-horseshoe (one end zone is a grassy slope) with steeply banked seats on each side. Can make for a very intense atmosphere once the sun sets.

[jkahn]

Does anyone do a Bradley-Terry (KRACH) rating for lacrosse?  I'm curious to see what that would be.

[billhoward]

The NCAA offers this time-warp insight into the tournament's history:

>>>Johns Hopkins University has won the event seven times, while Syracuse University has won eight times and is the defending national champion. Since 1988, either Syracuse or Princeton has won every year except Johns Hopkins’ 1987 victory and the University of Virginia’s 1999 and 2003 titles. http://www.ncaasports.com/lacrosse/mens/story/8455873

(NC won in 1991)

[peterg]

[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote:

 Towson athletics web site says the game is "tentatively" scheduled for Saturday night at 7:30pm.[/q]

CU web site confirms that time.

[Chris 02]

[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote:

 Here's a link to final tabulation of RPI, SOS, and "quality wins."  Looking at Towson, it sure appears the first two were the difference-makers this year.[/q]

I'm not so sure about this table.  It shows both Towson with a win over Delaware and Delaware with a win over Towson.  

According to

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?PageRID=4&teamid=83&action=detail

They never twice.

[Jordan 04]

That schedule is wrong.

http://www.towsontigers.com/sports/mlacrosse/schedule.asp

Lost to the Blue Hens in the regular season.  Edged them for the CAA tournament title.

[Al DeFlorio]

[Q]Chris 02 Wrote:

 [Q2]Al DeFlorio Wrote:

 Here's a link to final tabulation of RPI, SOS, and "quality wins."  Looking at Towson, it sure appears the first two were the difference-makers this year.[/Q]
I'm not so sure about this table.  It shows both Towson with a win over Delaware and Delaware with a win over Towson.  

According to

They never twice.[/q]
Delaware beat Towson in the regular season, and Towson beat Delaware in the league's tournament.

I think there is a flaw in the table, however.  It appears that in assigning "top 5 wins," etc., they are not using RPI but some other ranking (polls?) to determine top 5, top 10, etc., which is not how the NCAA allegedly operates.  For example, note that Army is credited with a "top 5" win over Cornell, while Cornell is shown as #11 in RPI.  Also, the footnote says that RPI and SOS were based on calculations prior to this past weekend, and are therefore out of date.  Almost as shaky as the case for WMD.

The bottom line still, apparently, is that this year's committee gave RPI and SOS more weight than in the past, and gave less weight to "quality wins."  This is disappointing, because RPI and SOS are driven more by whom you've played (the latter essentially entirely so), not how you did.  Giving strong consideration to "quality wins" at least meant you had to beat one or more of those difficult opponents that padded your RPI and SOS.  Anyone can lose to the top five teams in the country.  If you've played them but didn't beat any of them, what does that prove?  That you managed to get them on your schedule?

[DeltaOne81]

Yup, they weighted RPI and SOS a lot heavier this year, which is to say, at all.

Why? Easy. Syracuse, who's only quality wins were #12 (and, for kicks #17).  Go by quality wins alone, as has always been the case in the past, and Syracuse doesn't make the tournament. The good ol' boys can't have that happen, so they weight RPI (in which Syracuse was #6 for having lost to good teams) and SOS higher than ever before. In order to be consistent, they do that through the whole process, thereby shafting us the home game and screwing Dartmouth entirely.