How To Be a Good Fan

[RichH]

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 You can call it "BS" all you want but you'd be wrong.[/q]

What you said:
[Q] Posted by RichS on March 1, 2005

yeah, because cornell didn't win it...lol. Seems to have acquired a bit more meaning in more recent years. :-D[/Q]

What I said (another thread):
[Q]Posted by RichH on February 27, 2005

The Regular Season "Championship" is not a Championship, and there's nothing anyone can do or say to convince me otherwise. It made me want to vomit when USCHO Colgate fans put "2004 ECAC CHAMPIONS" in 48 point font in their signatures. (but not as much as I actually vomited when Harvard won the real 2004 Championship) I think Colgate's team also skated the Cleary Pisspot around as if it were the AVCO Cup. Morons.[/Q]

So yeah, what you said was BS.  Many (not all, I admit) Cornell fans agree with me that the Whitelaw is much more significant and important than the Cleary Urinal.  Which is contrary to your statement that now that we're winning it, we all think it's more meaningful than when Clarkson was winning it.  We're hypocritical when it comes to a lot of things, but this one, I'm supporting ugarte's "BS" call, regardless of how you want to paint us.

[CowbellGuy]

[Q]RichS Wrote:
Although there was a brief period when winning the RS title was eqaul in significance as it got you an auto bid to the NCAAs.[/q]
If all that matters is getting an NCAA bid, then they were equal in that respect, but hardly equal in significance. One meant you were league champions, one meant you got to play (and immediately lose, in Clarkson's case) in the NCAA tournament.

[billhoward]

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote: I gotta say, I'm glad I go to Clarkson and not Cornell, but I wish we had enough people to have the kind of fan base Lynah's got, and I think most colleges would say the same thing.[/q]Didn't Aesop say that a while back, only using "fox" instead of "Clarkson":

>>> A FAMISHED FOX saw some clusters of ripe black grapes hanging from a trellised vine.  She resorted to all her tricks to get at them, but wearied herself in vain, for she could not reach them. At last she turned away, hiding her disappointment and saying: "The Grapes are sour, and not ripe as I thought." The moral of the story: Any fool can despise what he cannot get.

There ought to be a pairwise comarisons chart for all colleges showing who got in where and who enrolled where. Harvard and Princeton probably don't lose many PWCs. We win some, we lose some (but look at our strength of schedule), because for a lot of people it's where we wanted to go (really!), for some it's a safety school (right), for some it's a reach school.

But seriously for a minute: Do the Ivies at least among themselves share information about who's jointly admitted (eg to Cornell and Brown and Yale) so they can internally track who went where? That would be an intriguing free-market counterpoint to the U.S. News kinds of rankings the colleges decry (especially in years when they slip).

[KeithK]

[q]But seriously for a minute: Do the Ivies at least among themselves share information about who's jointly admitted (eg to Cornell and Brown and Yale) so they can internally track who went where?[/q]Absolutely. The Ivies and MIT got together to compare notes when it comes to financial aid.  The theory being that in keeping with need-blind applicants should decide where to go based on the merits of each school and not based on financial decisions.  The courts didn't like this theory so the practice was stopped (a number of years ago already).

[daredevilcu]

FYI, I could've gotten into Cornell had I wanted to.  Salutatorian, 1340 SATs, good SAT 2's (don't remember exact score), plenty of extracurriculars.  It's not that I couldn't become part of the Big Red.  It's that I didn't want to.  I know what Ithaca's like and it's pretty lame.  Had I bothered to fill out the lengthy application, it would have been a safety school anyway, so I decided not to.

Also, where did I say I despised the Lynah Faithful?  I don't -- they're actually an amazing group of fans that every sport needs some form of.  Without dedicated fans like you guys, Cornell hockey would probably have nobody there who cared.  Ever been to Dartmouth's arena?  You think Colgate is dead... visit New Hampshire.  That arena's not quiet -- it's SILENT.

I like your point, though.  It would also be interesting to see who is accepted IV (since all Ivy is derived from is your athetic league years ago -- four), who decides to go there, and who goes elsewhere.  Keep in mind that intelligence is probably less of a factor than money in most cases.

[Tub(a)]

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:

 FYI, I could've gotten into Cornell had I wanted to.  Salutatorian, 1340 SATs, good SAT 2's (don't remember exact score), plenty of extracurriculars.  It's not that I couldn't become part of the Big Red.  It's that I didn't want to.  I know what Ithaca's like and it's pretty lame.  Had I bothered to fill out the lengthy application, it would have been a safety school anyway, so I decided not to.[/q]

http://eng-as-web.ece.cornell.edu/prospective/undergraduate/class-profile.cfm

[Facetimer]

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:

 FYI, I could've gotten into Cornell had I wanted to.  Salutatorian, 1340 SATs, good SAT 2's (don't remember exact score), plenty of extracurriculars.[/q]

Sorry Pal, we don't bother to accept people who score below 1350 on their SATs.  But I can see your point, Potsdam isn't lame at all.

[Ben Rocky '04]

Please please please tell me we're not gonna have the NC vs. Ithaca debate again.

[billhoward]

[OT] The comparison of admissions information for the purposes, allegedly, of making equal financial aid offers, that I knew about. I was thinking about the tracking afterwards, of seeing who actually enrolled where, and comparing that to the places where the person was accepted. Did the schools follow through before, and did they give it up after their legal woes arose?

The equal-financial-aid issue among the Ivies and MIT was a fascinating case of how academics and others (at least Forbes and the WSJ) see it way differently. From a pure educational point of view, it made sense that the student picked Cornell over Yale for the purest of academic purposes. From a free market point of view, why shouldn't Cornell and Yale compete to attract the student? If tuition/room/board was the same at both and Yale offered $15K outright and $10K in loans, while Cornell offered $17K in scholarhips and $10K in loans, why shouldn't the student pick the better deal?

There may have been an unsaid fear among the colleges that every student would tend toward the better deal financially among comparable colleges, so if Cornell misculated $2K too generous in the case of student A, and Yale calculated $2.5K too generous in the case of B, then A would be at Cornell, B would be in New Haven, and together the schools would be out $4.5K they didn't want to spend. Did this case actually go to court or did the Ivies and MIT fold their tents and steal away?

[Josh '99]

[Q]RichH Wrote:
 [Q2]RichS Wrote:
 You can call it "BS" all you want but you'd be wrong.[/Q]
What you said:
[Q2] Posted by RichS on March 1, 2005
yeah, because cornell didn't win it...lol. Seems to have acquired a bit more meaning in more recent years. [/Q]
What I said (another thread):
[Q2]Posted by RichH on February 27, 2005
The Regular Season "Championship" is not a Championship, and there's nothing anyone can do or say to convince me otherwise. It made me want to vomit when USCHO Colgate fans put "2004 ECAC CHAMPIONS" in 48 point font in their signatures. (but not as much as I actually vomited when Harvard won the real 2004 Championship) I think Colgate's team also skated the Cleary Pisspot around as if it were the AVCO Cup. Morons.[/Q]
So yeah, what you said was BS.  Many (not all, I admit) Cornell fans agree with me that the Whitelaw is much more significant and important than the Cleary Urinal.  Which is contrary to your statement that now that we're winning it, we all think it's more meaningful than when Clarkson was winning it.  We're hypocritical when it comes to a lot of things, but this one, I'm supporting ugarte's "BS" call, regardless of how you want to paint us.[/q]::popcorn::

[daredevilcu]

I'm not an engineer.  That's the mid 50% for engineering only, and I could've gotten in if I pushed it, trust me.

[KeithK]

I did realize that my example wasn't exactly what you asked about.

[q]Did this case actually go to court or did the Ivies and MIT fold their tents and steal away?[/q]I'm pretty sure it did actualy go to court and the schools lost.  I don't remember how high it went.

[RichH]

Who knew so many interesting tangents and sub-topics could be spawned from one .gif?  :-)

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:
I like your point, though.  It would also be interesting to see who is accepted IV (since all Ivy is derived from is your athetic league years ago -- four), [/q]

Cute urban legend, but wrong.  The phrase "Ivy League" was coined in 1937 by a bitter sportswriter who got sent to cover a Penn-Columbia game.

See the last article on this page: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ivysport/ivyleaghis.html


[Q]The time was Thursday afternoon, October 14, 1937. The setting was the sports department of the New York Herald-Tribune. Assignments were being made for coverage of the leading college football games of the week. The late George Daley, sports editor, and Irving Marsh, assistant sports editor, were making up the list.

To Stanley Woodward, even then a veteran and brilliant football writer, went the Pittsburgh-Fordham game at the Polo Grounds in New York. This was the game New Yorkers wanted most to read about, which was reason enough for Woodward to cover. He was then and is now one of the ablest writers the gridiron has produced in his years; and his years as a sports writer go back to about 1920.

When the other staff men got their assignments, Caswell Adams drew the Columbia-Pennsylvania game at Columbia's Baker Field in New York.

Now, Mr. Adams, ...had no quarrel with either Columbia or Pennsylvania. Both, in his considered judgment, were and are splendid old institutions of higher learning. He was, however, able to restrain with relative ease his enthusiasm for football as played in that day by a number of teams representing the more venerable centers of higher education in the East. This was in the heydey of Fordham University as a major football power; and Mr. Adams is a Fordham man.

Briefly, Piquantly, without rancor, he expressed his views to the editor.

"Whyinell," he inquired, "do I have to watch the ivy grow every Saturday afternoon? How about letting me see some football away from the ivy-covered halls of learning for a change?"

He did not press the point. There was a Friday night boxing match coming up in Madison Square Garden, and he had an advance story to write. He forgot the matter.

But Stanley Woodward, at a nearby typewriter, did not forget. He had heard a new phrase. Ivy-covered? Ivy group? Ivy League?" These old schools of the East did not like leagues. They had long shunned the conference idea. Stanley like to ruffle them occasionally and chuckled when he did so. Why not call these colleges the "Ivy League"?

[snip]

So a few days later, though not on the Monday morning immediately following, there crept unobtrusively into a Woodward football essay the phrase "...and in the Ivy League..." as introduction to a discussion of what was happening on the fields of the East's oldest colleges which, even then and without a semblance of formal grouping, were natural and traditional rivals. Set down alphabetically, they were, of course, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Pennsylvania, Princeton, and Yale.

The phrase caught on. Other writers soon picked it up. Then football enthusiasts began to use it in conversation. Before long even some of the academicians began to adopt it. Few who used it knew, or even wondered, about its origin.[/Q]

[The Rancor]

not a bad idea for some cheers, for example 'you lose' and 'warm' up the bus'::rolleyes::

[atb9]

The only thing that is worse than seeing demographics that show 73% dudes is going to class with 73% dudes.  :-(