Penalty for Throwing Fish

[Scersk '97]

This discussion occurs every year.  Blah, blah, blah.  Did the first poster ever mention where he got his, obviously firestarting, information?

[Pete Godenschwager]

[Q]I'd have to look it up again, but I don't think NCAA rules permit minors to be called on the fans unless a warning has been announced first. However, a warning may be announced before the game starts, at the ref's discretion.[/Q]

I think you're right that a warning is supposed to be issued.  Apparently at the SLU game this weekend a bottle was thrown on the ice, and a penalty called with no warning.  So maybe the refs can just do what they feel fit.

[billhoward]

Tossing a bottle onto the ice goes from cute (newspapers) to silly/stupid (fish) to dangerous. The referee if possible should decide if it's one jerk -- do you penalize the whole team / school? -- or if the jerk was inspired by other fans.

Then call in the cops and make it a police matter. Not a student judiciary procedure where the miscreant has to undergo sensitivity training.

If it's one jerk, how do you know he's your jerk? Imagine a Harvard fan wearing a Cornell sweatshirt tosses a a fish on ice at a critical juncture of the third period and yells, "Go Red, ref you suck, you missed an obvious penalty on Harvard." The penalty would be called on Cornell, right, and couldn't be undone ten minutes later.

[Will]

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

If it's one jerk, how do you know he's your jerk? Imagine a Harvard fan wearing a Cornell sweatshirt tosses a a fish on ice at a critical juncture of the third period and yells, "Go Red, ref you suck, you missed an obvious penalty on Harvard." The penalty would be called on Cornell, right, and couldn't be undone ten minutes later. [/q]

Sure, like any Harvard hockey fan would put that much effort into their actions.  Or, put more simply...sure, like there are any Harvard hockey fans. :-P

[billhoward]

[Q]Will Wrote:

 [Q2]billhoward Wrote:

If it's one jerk, how do you know he's your jerk? Imagine a Harvard fan wearing a Cornell sweatshirt tosses a a fish on ice at a critical juncture of the third period and yells, "Go Red, ref you suck, you missed an obvious penalty on Harvard." The penalty would be called on Cornell, right, and couldn't be undone ten minutes later. [/Q]
Sure, like any Harvard hockey fan would put that much effort into their actions.  Or, put more simply...sure, like there are any Harvard hockey fans.[/q]

As a practical matter, you are of course correct. Assuming Harvard has fans who could travel 375 miles and would travel that far when you have to drive just 20 miles to have a better chance of a winning weekend at Pine Manor (Pine Mattress) ... would they then be able to purchase a fish without the help of the butler and chef, figure a way to smuggle it into Lynah, degrade themselves to wear the sweatshirt of their safe school, and then get tossed out midway though the penultimate period? Assuming Harvard was still within one goal, because what's the sense of helping Harvard to a single powerplay when you're down three goals?

[Ack]

At least, cover your heads with some extra newspaper, folks.   ::yark::

[DL]

Wasn't the alternative of using stuffed animals mentioned in a thread from years' past?  Something like organizing a toys-for-tots sort of thing for the game where fans are asked to bring, say, stuffed Nemo's and deposit them with the person collecting them, who happens to be on the ice when the players come out...  Going from real fish to stuffed dolls is a bit emasculating, however.
I'd suggest taping some money onto the Nemos, where the collected cash could go to Paolini's program... But then what you've got is cash being thrown at Harvard students, so it's not like they'd be intimidated by that.

[KeithK]

Well, if you're going to throw cash you might as well aim for the refs... :-D

[jtwcornell91]

[Q]Scersk '97 Wrote:

 This discussion occurs every year.  Blah, blah, blah.  Did the first poster ever mention where he got his, obviously firestarting, information?[/q]

I'm with Scott.  They've tried to scare us before (e.g., in the 2000 playoffs) and it reduced the amount of fish thrown at first, but as often as not people end up waiting and throwing them with the newspapers, which just delays things more.

I think this is just FUD.

[jtwcornell91]

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Sure, we (fans) are supporting Cornell hockey and we've paid our way to get in, but the game is first and foremost for the players. What do the players think ...
- thanks for supporting Cornell hockey and for demoralizing Harvard?
- maybe it's okay but not if Cornell gets a penalty?
- sheesh, there are a couple prospects in the stands with their parents and what does that say about Cornell?
- NFW; just cheer after the goals and yell "Sieve."  
- other?
... my money is on "Don't do it" or "If it's going to cost us 2 minutes in the box, don't do it."
[/q]

After the sweep of Hahvahd in the 2000 ECAC Quintafinals at Lynah, we ran into one of the players at Hot Truck.  He asked us why we didn't throw more fish.  (This was one of the times they tried to make us think there would be a penalty for the first fish toss.)  One of our party said we didn't want to hurt the team, and he said something to the effect of don't worry, we'd kill it off.

[billhoward]

[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:

 [Q2]billhoward Wrote:
Sure, we (fans) are supporting Cornell hockey and we've paid our way to get in, but the game is first and foremost for the players. What do the players think ...
- thanks for supporting Cornell hockey and for demoralizing Harvard?
- maybe it's okay but not if Cornell gets a penalty?
- sheesh, there are a couple prospects in the stands with their parents and what does that say about Cornell?
- NFW; just cheer after the goals and yell "Sieve."  
- other?
... my money is on "Don't do it" or "If it's going to cost us 2 minutes in the box, don't do it."
[/Q]
After the sweep of Hahvahd in the 2000 ECAC Quintafinals at Lynah, we ran into one of the players at Hot Truck.  He asked us why we didn't throw more fish.  (This was one of the times they tried to make us think there would be a penalty for the first fish toss.)  One of our party said we didn't want to hurt the team, and he said something to the effect of don't worry, we'd kill it off.[/q]


Aha! We're about 50 messages into the throw-fish-or-not debate and at last we've heard one hearsay but apparently factual piece of evidence. Thank you.

[calgARI '07]

The "officical word" has been released.  I think he may have just copied and pasted most of last year's email.

>>>Dear hockey fans,

>>>An important hockey weekend is upon us, as the Big Red looks to open the
>>>ECAC regular seson schedule with a four point weekend against Brown and
>>>Harvard. Before all the action starts, I would like to emphasize some
>>>important issues with you.
>>>
>>>Fish
>>>Cornell is on notice that if the game vs. Harvard is delayed because of
>>>fish on the ice or if other disruptive, unsportsmanlike conduct occurs
>>>from the fans (particularly throwing objects at players or officials),
>>>the Big Red will be penalized. CU Police will be checking everyone at
>>>the entrances to Lynah and confiscating fish. Throwing objects
>>>(including candy & fish) onto the ice is prohibited and violators are
>>>subject to expulsion from the rink.
>>>
>>>Worthy Cause
>>>Instead of wasting money on fish, risking ejection from the rink or
>>>having the team penalized, why not continue a tradition that was started
>>>last year. We are asking fans to leave the fish at home and help make
>>>the holidays a little brighter for area children by bringing a new
>>>stuffed toy to the game. Toys that are collected from the ice prior to
>>>the announcement of the starting lineups will be donated to the Cops,
>>>Kids and Toys program, which benefits over 600 families and 1,600
>>>children in Tompkins County each year.
>>>
>>>Use of Profane Language
>>>People shouting obscenities are subject to expulsion from Lynah
>>>Rink. Those fans who have been found in violation of the profanity
>>>policy a second time will have their season tickets revoked.
>>>If the use of profanity continues during the Rocky Theme/Rock and Roll
>>>Part 2 (Gary Glitter) songs that are typically played at the start of
>>>the third period (Rough 'em up, Rough 'em up, GO CU!), the athletic
>>>department may be forced to remove the song from the band's
>>>repertoire. The substitution of "Rough 'em up" with "F*** 'em up" must
>>>stop. As Cornell alumni, Coach Schafer and I -- and many other CU
>>>graduates within the department and university -- revel in the
>>>atmosphere and electricity produced at Lynah when the songs are played.
>>>It is our sincere desire to continue the tradition of playing these
>>>songs. However, if the profanity does not cease, we will be forced to
>>>discontinue playing the songs, as many other Division I schools have
>>>done (Syracuse & Maryland).
>>>
>>>Thank you for your support of Big Red hockey!
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>
>>>Gene M. Nighman '81

And again, people who have no jurisdiction on a tradition that preceeds them are attempting to abolish it.

[Josh '99]

The tradition may precede Gene Nighman but I think it's a bit of a misnomer to say he has no jurisdiction over it.

[Beeeej]

A wonderful worthy cause, yes.  But if delay of the start of the game by throwing objects onto the ice is cause for a penalty, how is it that toys aren't in that category?

Beeeej

[calgARI '07]

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

 A wonderful worthy cause, yes.  But if delay of the start of the game by throwing objects onto the ice is cause for a penalty, how is it that toys aren't in that category?

Beeeej[/q]

I was thinking the same thing, but I'm sure Nighman et al would argue that stuffed animals can be picked right up, like newspapers, as opposed to fish, which make the ice bad and take much longer to pick up.