Biting Sun Article

[Al DeFlorio]

Right on, Josh.

Mangurian got out before the house of cards he built collapsed.  Pietramala is already causing people to ask how long Johns Hopkins will put up with his sideline demeanor.

Gil Dobie was a "storied" football coach (his glory years compare with Ned's--worth looking up).  Carl Snavely was a very good football coach.  Since then it's been downhill.  Maxie Baughan might have become a "storied" coach but he developed other problems... ::uhoh::

[Beeeej]

Speaking as a former Cornell Development Officer (read: fundraiser), I can assure you that a significant outlay of human and financial resources is involved in a $100 million campaign for anything at Cornell.  I have many friends and former colleagues working hard for this campaign, and very few of them are actually on the Athletics Department budget line.

But one thing you said is definitely true:  Athletics is expected more and more to operate financially in a manner "non-dependent on" (if not independent from) the rest of the university.  That's the primary reason behind this campaign; every new endowed coaching position means less money that has to come from each year's budget.

Beeeej

[finchphil]

And Bob Blackman was a storied football coach at Dartmouth (the last Ivy League team to be nationally ranked in DIV 1) but came here and did diddly.

[Al DeFlorio]

Seems to me I just read a cover article in a major magazine (Business Week?) on the top college athletic programs in the country.  Among the top 20 (in their listed-alphabetically rankings) were five or six Ivy League schools, including Cornell.  The Ivies have, on the whole, many more sports, for both genders, than almost all others.  Only Ohio State, of the big athletic factories, is up there with Harvard, Cornell, etc.

[kingpin248]

With respect to the comment about marginalizing athletic programs, I think Schueller was referring to the lead article on the front page of Thursday's Sun, which talks about discussions to possibly reduce the number of recruited athletes across the board.  According to the article, it's basically a non-issue for Cornell, since only about 10% of each class is comprised of recruited student-athletes.  For Princeton and Dartmouth, where the fraction is probably near one-third, it's of much more pressing concern.

(edit, 6:20 PM): I agree with what Tom says about handicapping athletes.  The presidents of the Ivy League schools are not opposed to winning national championships, but they're not going to stoop to the levels of Arkansas or Florida State or even Duke to make it happen.

[tml5]

I think it's partly dramatic license, but it might have been spurred by a recent article about changing admissions practices for athletes.  I can't find the article now, but I believe it came from Harvard and talked about a motion at a meeting of Ivy League presidents (or something) to admit fewer athletes and/or give less consideration to athletic performance as an admissions factor.  The link to the article is buried someplace on the USCHO women's hockey board.  It was originally put up there by a Harvard poster, but I can't find it at all since I don't remember the name of the poster, the name of the article, or the name of the thread.

At any rate, that motion has not passed and it seemed ill-conceived, partly because of the way it was worded and partly because the article went out of its way to point out that Harvard has one of the largest (if not *the* largest) varsity program in the country.  I doubt that the Ivy League is seriously *trying* to handicap athletics, although inadvertently handicapping the sports teams is another matter entirely.

[ugarte]

Ivy league schools are committed to athletics in the best "healthy body/healthy mind" spirit.  That means that the schools offer teams in a lot of sports - to ensure broad participation by students rather than a laser-like focus on media-friendly sports to ensure broad entertainment for  students and the surrounding community.

I like that a lot of people will pick Penn to beat Cal when they fill out their brackets tonight - and that Princeton (Only one point from kicking Pitino in the teeth!) and Yale made the NIT. I like that Cornell has nationally ranked hockey, lacrosse and wrestling teams in the face of major state university competition.   I am also, however, very proud that Cornell has the best women's polo team in the country.  And a squash team. And a fencing team.  And crew for men (heavy and light) and women.  

I will take the Ivy league model, which preserves the ideal of college sports, over the Big-Time State University model, in which the Athletic Department is a tail that wags the University dog.  I watch college football and basketball, because they are high quality versions of sports I like to watch, but I won't pretend that they are, with few exceptions, anything other than professionals-in-training.

[finchphil]

Well done.  You write like an Ivy League grad.  Not with the grammatical errors of those still in training!

[Ben Doyle 03]

hey. . .watch it buster!!!

[littleredfan]

Philip:

Yeah, let's worry about our ECAC title first. We have had the benefits of playing in a weak ECAC, but other than beating BU once, haven't faired that well against ranked teams outside of the ECAC.

Are YOU still in training?  ::uhoh::  I may forgive you if you graduated from engineering, but otherwise, please use fare instead of fair ::rolleyes::

[jtwcornell91]

Hofher had a career sort of like McCutcheon's: early success and high hopes, followed by gradual disappointment.  One silver lining to the way Maxie left was that he had just won an Ivy co-championship, and got to go out on top.  No, wait, let me rephrase that... :-D

[zg88]

> ...Maxie... got to go out on top.

 ::laugh::

[Jonathan Seibald]

As I am the guy that Gary Schueller quoted as saying that I have no room to hide fish for the Harvard game in the crotch area of my pants, I want to defend this tremendous hockey reporter.  Granted, his grammar was terrible, but this is the week before Spring Break in which he has to deal with lots of midterms and work.  Therefore, give him a break.  Gary has provided the best hockey coverage I've seen in my three years here at Cornell. He tries to make us feel like we are a part of a proud tradition. What's wrong with that?  So he exaggerated a little in the article.  This is the best team we have had in 30 years, and  after all the trash-talking I've done to my friends at the usual powerhouses of Michigan and BC, I expect this team to win at Placid and make major waves in the tourney.  I will be disappointed if we don't.  That it is not a put-down of the team, but the ultimate testament to the kind of program that Schafer has put together during his tenure.  Gary understands that very well.  Apparently, some of you don't.

[jtwcornell91]

I'll echo what's been said by others on this thread.  The goal this weekend should be to win the ECAC title, plain and simple.  Next week we can (Hockey Gods willing) talk about how far we expect this team to go in the NCAAs.

Of course, I still say winning the ECACs is the cake and anything that happens in the NCAAs is the icing.  I'd hate to see success turn us into one of those Hockey Least teams that are relieved to be eliminated from their league tournament so they can concentrate on the "important" one.  ::yark::

[melissa]

I'm with JTW.

Jonathan said

"This is the best team we have had in 30 years, and after all the trash-talking I've done to my friends at the usual powerhouses of Michigan and BC, I expect this team to win at Placid and make major waves in the tourney. I will be disappointed if we don't. That it is not a put-down of the team, but the ultimate testament to the kind of program that Schafer has put together during his tenure."

Also agree with this. I think that all cornell fans will be disappointed if we don't come away from LP with the hardware.

But this isn't the part of Gary's article that I and others are disputing. It is the statement that anything less is simply unacceptable. Saying that anything less is unaceptable is going too far. The team has played great all year and that in itself is something to be proud of, no matter what the outcome at LP. The improvements by the team in all areas of the game have been noticed nationwide . As a result, the program is growing in reputation, as is the fan base (now whether a lot of these people or just jumping on the bandwagon has yet to be determined). Just exactly how far the team goes is out of our hands. All I know is that the faithful will be there to cheer them on as long as they last in the post season ...  without piling on a heap of expectations.

Sorry if this is ranting sounding but I was so frustrated upon reading this article and it has yet to completely dissipate.