Biting Sun Article

CowbellGuy · March 13, 2002, 01:03:40 PM

Who the hell is Beej? ::rolleyes::

Beeeej · March 13, 2002, 01:08:19 PM

Cornell should not even slightly be focusing on the Frozen Four right now. That's a damn good way to lose an ECAC semifinal.

And I'm not giving him a break because I don't think people whose opinions are so important to them that they put them in the newspaper should be given a break on so many ridiculous errors, both factual and grammatical.

Beeeej

Josh '99 · March 13, 2002, 01:09:21 PM

Us being unbearable to fans of other teams will bring the team luck? I don't exactly follow. :-P

rhovorka · March 13, 2002, 01:10:46 PM

C'mon...it's an editorial. It's purpose is to get people riled up, to get people talking...to get people to buy newspapers. In the first two respects, the author was successful.

I have 3 comments:

1) I think that this guy watched the terrible and over-promoted ESPN movie "A Season on the Brink" once too often late at night in the Sun break room.

2) The author may be tired of watching the Red come out flat in the opening period, but I'm not tired of watching them raise their sticks in triumph at the end of the game. I think the coach is doing a fine job of handling the X's and O's and motivation.

3) I'm glad that we're arguing whether Mintz is a "legend" or not. It sure as hell beats those "What the F is wrong with our team??" discussions. (see SLU and RPI fan discussions on USCHO earlier this year). And for me, the Mintz-type discussions aren't what puts me in a state of joy...the team has already done that by the time I get here.

Josh '99 · March 13, 2002, 01:17:27 PM

Rich Hovorka '96 wrote:

Quote3) I'm glad that we're arguing whether Mintz is a "legend" or not. It sure as hell beats those "What the F is wrong with our team??" discussions. (see SLU and RPI fan discussions on USCHO earlier this year). And for me, the Mintz-type discussions aren't what puts me in a state of joy...the team has already done that by the time I get here.

Come on, SLU can still turn it around and win the RS title! Page for RotY! Ackley for GotY! Awards for SLU all around! Marsh is God! We're better than Clarkson and Cornell put together! We only lost most of our games by one goal! It was the ref's fault!

Hehehe. Sorry, I had to do it.

finchphil · March 13, 2002, 01:43:37 PM

Yeah, let's worry about our ECAC title first. We have had the benefits of playing in a weak ECAC, but other than beating BU once, haven't faired that well against ranked teams outside of the ECAC. We aren't even ranked in the top 4 in the country and for good reason, we haven't proven we can consistently beat good teams. Good goal tending and a strong defense are usually the keys to a contender for a national title and that means we might have a shot IF we can win the ECACs and get an NCAA bid. FOCUS #1 is and should be winning against either Dartmouth or RPI, not a Frozen Four slot.

jason · March 13, 2002, 02:16:43 PM

QuoteAs Ivy League university presidents discuss ways to continually marginalize the presence of sports programs on our campuses...

Is this true or just dramatic license? Certainly it does not seem like the presidents (or whoever makes such decisions) are very interested in promoting and providing for the success of sports (I would give up caffeine for a f*ckin' year if the powers that be would just let the Ivy teams play 30 games --just one more game!-- which to me looks a lot better on paper than 29, and let them start skating a couple weeks earlier), but are they actively trying to undermine sports? If so, why not (and god forbide I'm giving anyone any ideas) demote themselves to DIII? Is there some NCAA prohibition that would prohibit them from doing this?

Beeeej · March 13, 2002, 02:20:21 PM

To the contrary; a well-publicized, $100-million fundraising campaign just for Athletics is a pretty sure sign that Cornell isn't the least bit interested in "marginalizing" athletics.

Beeeej

Ben Doyle 03 · March 13, 2002, 02:29:22 PM

:-/ If Petro had stayed a few more years :-/ I would be willing to bet we would certainly be the top six or seven in the nation, for sure! He could have very easily become a "storied" lacrosse coach had he stayed in Ithaca (. . . he defiantly had the horses).

jason · March 13, 2002, 02:37:22 PM

Beeeej,
My understanding is that Cornell Athletics is to a very large degree forced to find it's own funding and pretty much act like its own separate business in this regard (the University does not provide it much). So that campaign could be the product of the Athletic Dept's efforts but may not signify that the University cares or is doing much of anything to help (other than not standing in the way). BTW, if anyone knows that my understanding is incorrect, please correct me.

finchphil · March 13, 2002, 02:45:16 PM

I am not sure of where the money comes from for athletics at Cornell, but to quote the Ivy League web site....

Sponsoring conference championships in 33 men's and women's sports, and averaging more than 35 varsity teams at each school, the Ivy League provides intercollegiate athletic opportunities for more men and women than any other conference in the country. All eight Ivy schools are among the "top 20" of NCAA Division I schools in number of sports offered for both men and women.

I think the Ivy League is very committed to sports. How did Penn State's hockey team do this year? What about Purdue's lacrosse team? The difference is that we are committed to academics first and athletics second. I suppose we could play more games and give out athletic scholarships to deserving students, but I think Cornell Athletics has a tradition to be proud of.

Greg Berge · March 13, 2002, 02:46:47 PM

Isn't athletics a separate entity at most schools, especially schools with some degree of state status?

I don't think the Ivy presidents gather in a smoke-free room and think up ways to handicap their athletic departments because losing schools look like smarter schools. Winning teams translate into happier, more generous alumni, and there's never been a president of *anything* who didn't spend every waking moment whoring for money.

I think Cornell has the resources to displace Princeton as the dominant athletic Ivy, and I wish they would. Athletics carries less and less the pejorative "jock" image, at the Ivies at least, that was fashionable in the 60's through 80's, and perhaps we will see a race to the top, rather than a race to the bottom, much in the tradition of the Ivies of the first half of last century.

Princeton had a run of hoops teams that could have been elite eight. Harvard was a frequent final four team in hockey. Football is hopeless. Still, I think the jury is out as to whether the Ivy administrations will actively encourage their sports teams. It isn't as if, in hockey, we are asking for low admissions standards or midweek games. Just the same schedule as the other teams. It really isn't much to ask, and man would it help!

nshapiro · March 13, 2002, 03:04:21 PM

Philip wrote:
I think the Ivy League is very committed to sports

I remember an article years (and years) ago in SI that evaluated Athletics at various schools...the most memorable observation stated something to the effect [paraphrase] Brown University Athletic department revenue is $2 million, and the expenditures are $4 million....Nebraska's athletics revenue is $8 million, and the expenditures are $4 million....Now which school is truly committed to college athletics [/paraphrase]

Jason wrote:
why not (and god forbide I'm giving anyone any ideas) demote themselves to DIII? Is there some NCAA prohibition that would prohibit them from doing this?

I believe that a school must participate at the level of its most competitive team, with a single exception allowed (possibly a second exception was added when d2 lacrosse was abolished). This means that all teams must compete at the same level, except one sport may participate a more competitive level - %99 of the time the exception is used for college hoops.

finchphil · March 13, 2002, 03:16:38 PM

I agree with Neil. The Ivies are very committed to college athletics. Some "big time" schools only field a few varsity teams, in particular, those they can make money from. On the term of instutional support, this also comes from ivyleaguesports.com:

Ivy athletic programs receive multi-million-dollar institutional support as part of each institution's overall academic programs, independent of win-loss or competitive records and together with extensive programs of intramural and recreational athletics.

Granted, it's not cheap to field a women's polo team or a men's squash team or any of the mutlitude of sports Cornell offers, but they are offered and occassionally bring home championships. Would scholarships change this, sure. Would throwing more money at Athletics equate to more national titles? I doubt it. When was the last time Indiana or Ohio State won a national title in anything?

Having lived in Boston for years now, I recall seeing both Hunter Rawlings and before him, Frank Rhodes at the rink for Cornell-Harvard games in Boston. They seemed pretty committed to me.

jason · March 13, 2002, 03:16:43 PM

Neil,
Thanks. I was not clear but I did mean a whole-sale demotion of all sports to DIII (well, maybe leave hockey as DI :-)) ).