Article on schools applying for ECAC membership

[KeithK]

[q]The only thing to worry about there [/q]That's not the only thing.  I worry anytime someone suggests splitting the Ivy schools off into their own league or division.  That just seems like a step down toward second-class status like Ivy basketball or football (or is that third class sstatus?)

[nyc94]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:
That's not the only thing.  I worry anytime someone suggests splitting the Ivy schools off into their own league or division.  That just seems like a step down toward second-class status like Ivy basketball or football (or is that third class sstatus?)[/q]

Unlike basketball and football, Ivy hockey has been able to make some noise on the national stage.  Is it possible that a six team Ivy league with an autobid would aid recruiting because of the increased chance (on paper anyway) of making the NCAA tournament?  The additional out of conference games would give us the chance to boost strength of schedule.

[KeithK]

I'd suggest that the success of Ivy hockey has a lot to do with being a part of the ECAC.  Until the last few years the non-Ivies have tended to be more successful than the Ivies (he says without looking for stats to back up his claim).  A separate Ivy league would be more likely, IMO, to go the way of the other sports.

Now in fairness, hockey isn't football or basketball.  Ivy football was doomed in the first place by the I-AA classification.  But aside from that, football and basketball are much bigger sports in terms of popularity and participation.  Top talent is much more likely to go to a state school with scholarships in these sports, both because there are more schools giving them out and because athletes are less likely to be able to afford a non-scholarship school.  Hockey by nature is an expensive sport to play, much more so than basketball or football.  Parents who pay for the skates and ice time for their kid are more likely to be able to afford a less-subsidized private college education.

I feel like I'm blathering, but my point was that maybe the Ivies could retain some national visibility as a separate conference.  But personally I like having the other schools in the league.  I'll even miss the damn Mount-a-cats.

[billhoward]

One gets the feeling the ECAC expansion will be, is being, discussed more thoroughly and intelligently on eLynah than maybe the ECAC itself will do.

It would make for a great Here's What They Oughta Do column on USCHO.com.

[Federal Hill]

Nothing against Union, but you may want reconsider your groupings which obviously implies that Union belongs in the "almost Ivy" and HC does not.  I just checked the stats and HC is higher ranked than Union. According to Princeton Review, HC has an admissions selectivity of 92 (100 being the most difficult), while Union is 91.  HC's academic rating is 94, Union's 87.  HC's composite SAT is higher and it's listed in Barron's Most Competitive Colleges.  Union isn't.    

[Al DeFlorio]

[Q]Federal Hill Wrote:

 Nothing against Union, but you may want reconsider your groupings which obviously implies that Union belongs in the "almost Ivy" and HC does not.  I just checked the stats and HC is higher ranked than Union. According to Princeton Review, HC has an admissions selectivity of 92 (100 being the most difficult), while Union is 91.  HC's academic rating is 94, Union's 87.  HC's composite SAT is higher and it's listed in Barron's Most Competitive Colleges.  Union isn't.     [/q]

If the ECAC were to look for one Atlantic Hockey school to replace Vermont, Holy Cross would get my vote.  Certainly over Quinnipiac.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

Under no circumstances should we have the Ivy League as a separate conference.  It would make hockey the same as basketball.  Sorry, Penn and Princeton may win the Ivy League on a regular basis, but there ain't no way they're ever going to win more than one game in the NCAA's in a given year.

And what would you rather: an Ivy autobid followed by a crushing loss in the first round, because the league just stinks, or an Ivy-inclusive broader confererence with a genuine chance of winning a few games or even the tournament.

I know my choice.

JH

[Greg Berge]

The Ivies' insularity in other sports certainly hurts their competiteness.  Granted, in hoops and football it comes from the best of motives (cough we don't cheat uncough), but in hockey the Big Money issues are not as pronounced and it doesnt taint us to remain in contact with the Michigans, North Dakotas, and even the Maines.

[billhoward]

[Q]Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:.

And what would you rather: an Ivy autobid followed by a crushing loss in the first round, because the league just stinks, or an Ivy-inclusive broader confererence with a genuine chance of winning a few games or even the tournament.

I know my choice.

JH[/q]

We're seeing the crushing-loss part in the first round of the NCAA lax tournament where some of the lowest-seeded, auto-bid team get rolled over. OTOH five years from now, when their 13-5 losses are way in the past, the players can say, "Senior year, our team made the NCAAs."

"When the one great scorer ..." and all.

[jtwcornell91]

For Cornell at least, it comes down to the question: do we care more about being in a conference with RPI and Clarkson, or with Princeton and Yale?  As long as we can have our Ivy cake and eat it too within a wider conference of other traditional rivals, the benefit of making the NCAAs (which we've done about as often as we've won the Ivies lately anyway) isn't worth giving that up.

[Greg Berge]

Given the choice, I'd rather be playing in a conference with RPI and Clarkson and Princeton and Yale and BU and BC.  And we used to.

The Ivies shot themselves in the head once.  Let's not do it again.

[Mike Nevin]

I know this could never really happen, but...

Rather than add a team, I think the ECAC should dump Union back to a lower level league where they belong.  It would be justice for Union voting against Div III schools being allowed to play up in a single sport.  It would also increase the level of competition in the ECAC, and open up two more opportunities for the good ECAC teams to schedule games against other top talent.

[jtwcornell91]

I believe a USCHO board expression is in order here:

Go get me a beer!
::rolleyes::

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

I don't care who's in the conference as long as that confernce is as competitive as the current conference or preferably more so.  And yes, that means if the Ivy league forces the ECAC to be non-competitive, I fully support Cornell leaving the Ivy League.  Always have.  Always will.

It is possible for a college to maintain academic standards and competitive teams.  Just not in the self indulgent world of the Ivy League.

JH

[Lauren '06]

Oh, but then section B wouldn't be able to do the irritating Which team is the Ivy League? chant when we lose.... :-P