Article on schools applying for ECAC membership

[KeithK]

Jim Teresco posted the following link to HOCKEY-L and I thought it was worth cross posting here.  It's by Ken Schott of the Capitol region's Daily Gazette (can't remember the town...)
http://www.dailygazette.net/Repository/ml.asp?Issue=SCH/2004/05/09&ID=Ar02504&Mode=Gif

[billhoward]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

 Jim Teresco posted the following link to HOCKEY-L and I thought it was worth cross posting here.  It's by Ken Schott of the Capitol region's Daily Gazette (can't remember the town...)
http://www.dailygazette.net/Repository/ml.asp?Issue=SCH/2004/05/09&ID=Ar02504&Mode=Gif[/q]

Ah, you know it! You just don't want to have to carefully spell out "Schenectady." Between that and Rens ... Renns ... oh, heck, RPI, the Albany area is tough on writers.

[KeithK]

I admit, I did figure it Sche... whatever.

[billhoward]

Article from the Schenectady Gazette says a lot about nothing on the first page (I used to be good at that. It's a skill that does not come easily.). It says Holy Cross and Qunnipiac "have been mentioned" as candidates. Later on the jump page it says Army and Mercyhurst "have also been mentioned as candidates" and Niagara "is also considering applying."

The story quotes the Union coach saying, "We want to do what's best for the league."

The RPI AD is quoted as saying, "We're not sure how many [apps] we'll get ... We hear hear rumblings here and there." He also promises "we'll do a thorough review."

Quinnipiac says "it's a thrill" to be asked if they're a potential candidate. The Cross says it's "potentially very interested" in the ECAC.

Mercyhurst outright says it's applying.

Union's coach, Nate Leaman, said "There's a consensus in our league that we want to play more games." I wonder if that's true (consensus) of all or just of the non-Ivy schools since the Ivies limit themselves to 29 games (meaning 7 of 29 pre-Vermont-departure) while the others play 34 (meaning 12 dates to fill, 14 should no one replace Vt.). Should the ECAC go all-out and expand to 14 teams, that would give Cornell and the other Ivies three open games. You could play a one-game series with say Michigan State in late October, and then play a two-game non-league holiday tournament. That's it.

Among these promises, the potential applicants' enthusiasm, and Phil Buttafuoco stepping back from the hockey role, this should "potentially" be some kind of conference. eh?

[KeithK]

Yeah, the article isn't exactly a gold mine of new information.  But the fact that Mercyhurst is definitely applying was news to me.

[billhoward]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

 Yeah, the article isn't exactly a gold mine of new information.  But the fact that Mercyhurst is definitely applying was news to me. [/q]

Mercyhurst is a long bleeping way from Ithaca (240 miles), and compared to the rest of the ECAC, we're practially next-door neighbors.

Adding Mercyhurst, which is doing okay-to-good in a couple sports like hockey and lax, would round the league back up to a dozen teams. But there is no natural weekend playing partner for Friday-Saturday games.

I wonder if the league is so intent on puffing up its image (I think the ECAC is seen as the weakest of the *major* hockey conferences) that it might overexpand and hope that a couple of the newcomers play good hockey. What if Holy Cross gets in, does well, and decides in five years that Hockey East is more of a natural fit?

[KeithK]

Geographically Mercyhurst isn't a good fit.  But the fact that they can come out and say they're applying tells me that the league hasn't discouraged them.  Not to say that applying equals acceptance but I doubt they would apply without at least testing the waters informally first.

[billhoward]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

Geographically Mercyhurst isn't a good fit.  But the fact that they can come out and say they're applying tells me that the league hasn't discouraged them.  Not to say that applying equals acceptance but I doubt they would apply without at least testing the waters informally first.
[/q]

The ECAC recalls its glory years when the ECAC basked in the glory of the Penn State football heroics and hockey powers like BU and BC. Maybe it's intent on extending its hegemony westward to the Ohio border, fearful that a western (really western) Pennsylvania team might think it's part of the central collegiate hockey realm.

And yes you're right that before you apply, you see if the club will actually have you as a member.

Mercyhurst + Niagara as a combo still makes more sense from a travel schedule except, whoops, still nobody to pair with Dartmouth geographically because you're back at odd number of teams.

[Tom Pasniewski 98]

I'm not sure the big deal about adding two teams - if Vermont wasn't leaving - would we be having a big discussion about adding a 13th team - probably not.  To add two teams, you either have to realign travel partners or rethink the whole notion of travel partners.  As was suggested elsewhere, pairing Princeton with Mercyhurst doesn't work, nor would pairing Cornell (the furthest west) with Niagara or Mercyhurst.  Holy Cross would work with Dartmouth.  Adding a Mercyhurst or Niagara along with Holy Cross might be the best solution if the Ivies could go up to 31 games and everybody else to 36 by having each team either go to or host Mercyhurst or Niagara for a weekend pair of games and pairing Holy Cross with Dartmouth.  Adding Mercyhurst and Niagara gives a nice pairing but what about Dartmouth and woe be the player who has to sit on a bus from Hanover to Erie.

[billhoward]

Getting the Ivy presidents to say yes to two more games would help immensely - without the rest of the ECAC going +2 games also (they already have more). As a fan I love the idea. Of course, there is the quaint notion that Ivy League hockey players are students. If I were an Ivy president, I'd say "yes ... so long as the season doesn't start earlier or end later or happen during exam week," meaning they'd have to find a couple midweek games in January. Or is there an open weekend now after Christmas and before the start of classes? I don't think so. and I don't see playing the weekend before Christmas (are exams over?) as a big winner, either.

Again based on this quaint notion that academcis ought to get a passing nod, why the two week lag between the quarterfinals and the champsionship weekend? The only one I can think of is not wanting to go head to head with NCAA final four weekend. Of course, NCAA hockey could play a Friday-Sunday series and just hope Brigham Young doesn't make it to the title game.

[Josh '99]

I'm confused, Bill...  Are you alluding to the possibility that Penn State would go DI?

[Tom Pasniewski 98]

Wait, are these the same Ivy Presidents who thinks it's okay for three Ivy schools to keep playing and practicing lacrosse during spring final exams, but not okay for ONE football team to keep playing possibly closer to fall final exams in the D-IAA playoffs.  That football thing has always been a sore point with me.  

[billhoward]

[Q]jmh30 Wrote:

 I'm confused, Bill...  Are you alluding to the possibility that Penn State would go DI?[/q]

Sorry if I confused you. I meant only that the ECAC is a political animal (as is the NCAA, the USOC, etcetera) and in addition to doing what's best for its members, the ECAC perhaps fondly thinks back to the days when it was more powerful than it is now ... and thinks about what it can do to recapture old glory.

The allusion to Penn State was to its days as an independent within the framework of the ECAC. Penn State still gets counted in the Lambert Poll for best eastern school but it's Big Ten now. Nothing to do with the possibility of Penn State trying to become a Division I powerhouse.Though now that you mention it ... if Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Wisconis all are D1 powers ....

Similarly, ECAC hockey was relegated to second class citizenship when Hockey East broke off. Or to put the best light on it, the ECAC is the lesser of equals compared to Hockey East.

By snaring Mercyhurst, Holy Cross, and Qunnipiac (if it does), the ECAC is grabbing on to teams that *could* in five years be nationally ranked (top ten, not "also receiving votes"). Mercyhurst is so far west in the east that it could just as easily have gone to the CCHA, which has Ohio schools such as Ohio State, Miami, and Bowling Green that would be geographically closer than most ECAC schools. (Of couse, it also has Alaska Fairbanks and Nebraska-Omaha). I think the ECAC desperately wants someone that can look good in the NCAA final four. Right now in the ECAC, there are a half-dozen schools that could every third or fourth year, one of them could, make a run for the final four. But it's not like BU, BC, UNH, and Maine all being capable of going all the way every other year.

That's what I think.

[Greg Berge]

The ECAC ought to choose the most competitive programs that are available to it, and I'd rather get a team that has been doing well than a small conference bottom feeder.  But don't expect miracles.  Whoever joins is going to be ghastly for years.  The most to hope for is that they aren't satisfied with being ghastly forever (Army, Union) and someday become a credible member of the league.

[jy3]

i think that adding a buffalo area school with mercyhurst and holy cross would make sense for traveling - i doubt they would pair cornell with mercyhurst and would try to add a buffalo area team if they added mercyhurst. what about pairing harvard with dartmouth and brown with a CT area team?
we shall see what happens.
not sure how i feel about two more games added to the ivies but we shall see.