Castagna and Walsh - The Worry Zone

[upprdeck]

Castagna can sign a 3 yr deal this yr or next.  It comes down to getting a degree, playing with teammates.  Does he want to play for the team that drafted him and take that deal or go back into the pool and get drafted again.

Isnt his 3 yr rights done this year?

[stereax]

Castagna can sign a 3 yr deal this yr or next.  It comes down to getting a degree, playing with teammates.  Does he want to play for the team that drafted him and take that deal or go back into the pool and get drafted again.

Isnt his 3 yr rights done this year?

He can't get redrafted. If he plays another year at Cornell, he'd be a college free agent. Different thing.

And they changed the rules - now, when you start the NCAA, you get 4 years to finish your degree. Pretty sure this is retroactive too. If you expedite it and finish in 3, like Wiebe is doing, then you get 3 years. After you finish, you have 30 days to negotiate with your draft club - if you don't figure it out by then, you become a free agent.

From what I've heard, he's going to finish his degree either way. Wouldn't be surprised if he finishes the credits for it over the summer.

[marty]

(If you couldn't tell one of the things I really like about hockey is the contract/cap stuff... now ya know!)

Freakin' lawyers.

 

Could be a future there?

[stereax]

(If you couldn't tell one of the things I really like about hockey is the contract/cap stuff... now ya know!)

Freakin' lawyers.

 

Could be a future there?

I wish...

[stereax]

Francis:

Flames prospect Jonathan Castagna is waiting at the Flames hotel in Denver, where the team will arrive later today.
The big centre from Cornell, who was acquired in the Weegar trade, has not made a jump to the pros official by signing his name to a contract just yet.
But I'd expect him to be part of the team's morning skate tomorrow.

[BearLover]

Too bad. Greatly hurts our chances next season. If only Utah had held onto him we would have had frozen four potential.

[BearLover]

I'll say one thing about Castagna—this whole thing about Calgary sending a bunch of execs to his Colorado hotel and putting a full court press on him to sign feels rushed and a little unfair to him. He just got traded and was focused on the playoffs; he's barely had time to think about this! Most players know for most of the season if they plan to go pro when the season is over. We know from reporting that Castagna was NOT going to go pro with Utah this season, meaning he has only had the last two weeks—which, again, were focused on the playoffs—to figure out what he wants to do now. You'd think Jonathan would sit down with not just the Flames but also his family and current team and talk about this. But his team flew back to Ithaca yesterday morning and it's now just him and the Flames brass. I'm sure he's being as thoughtful as he can, but I don't know how you could possibly accurately weigh all the options under these circumstances.

[abmarks]

I'll say one thing about Castagna—this whole thing about Calgary sending a bunch of execs to his Colorado hotel and putting a full court press on him to sign feels rushed and a little unfair to him. He just got traded and was focused on the playoffs; he's barely had time to think about this! Most players know for most of the season if they plan to go pro when the season is over. We know from reporting that Castagna was NOT going to go pro with Utah this season, meaning he has only had the last two weeks—which, again, were focused on the playoffs—to figure out what he wants to do now. You'd think Jonathan would sit down with not just the Flames but also his family and current team and talk about this. But his team flew back to Ithaca yesterday morning and it's now just him and the Flames brass. I'm sure he's being as thoughtful as he can, but I don't know how you could possibly accurately weigh all the options under these circumstances.

Again all projection andd assumption;  just because you feel blindsided clearly by the rapidity of events doesn't mean he is.


You don't know whether his agent came into town or not. 
You don't know how much time he spent talking with his agent or his family since the trade and I think it would be naive to decide that he hadn't. 
You don't know whether he's talked to Casey in the last 2 weeks or even if Casey might have brought it up with Johnny after the trade came down if even in the informal "hey how you feeling about all this" sort of way.

You seem to believe this is all a complete surprise that Calgary would want to sign them as soon as we lost. It's plausible, though I certainly would not say more likely than not, that Calgary and his agent spoke about all sorts of possibilities and one of them was hey. Hey, let's talk as soon as they're out and if they happen to get knocked out in Denver we're going to be there a couple days later so let's all figure this out in Denver cuz we'd love to sign them and have them in the lineup on Tuesday if that happens.

And saying it's just him and the flame's brass implies that the three of them are going to be locked in a room where Calgary's not going to let him leave until he signs under pressure negotiation or something ridiculous like that.   Not having seen any reporting that said castagna is an idiot, kid will be smart enough to have dinner with the people from Calgary or whatever and get the sales pitch but completely defer to his agent to actually handle things.

And if his agent is any good whatsoever and had any concerns about the Calgary  representatives showing up in  Denver and the amount of pressure that might put on Jonathan, than the agent is going to tell Calgary not to show up And tell Johnny not to meet with them at all If they do.

[Trotsky]

I've talked a bit with Castagna's parents over the years.  They are savvy.  There is no way Jonathan is not an active, willing, and witting participant in everything.  It's not an ambush.  The team is playing it cynically to max out whatever burst of hype they can generate and start the long process of turning him into their cash cow.  The family is playing it to both protect his interests and also help that process since after his servitude that investment rebounds to his market value.

Since it is 99% certain he is gone I can say with as much confidence as anybody not in the actual know that he will definitely complete his degree by whatever means.  The family was impressed and proud of Cornell and comes out of this as potentially amazing ambassadors for us, and if Castagna becomes a star that can only help us down the line.

Everybody wins.  There is a reason Mike bent over backwards to help his players who wanted to jump, was always supportive, never stood in the way, and always made the family the center of the decision.  Not just because he is a good guy, though he is, but because it's the smart play.  You don't sell a car, you sell the next ten cars.

[scoop85]

I'll say one thing about Castagna—this whole thing about Calgary sending a bunch of execs to his Colorado hotel and putting a full court press on him to sign feels rushed and a little unfair to him. He just got traded and was focused on the playoffs; he's barely had time to think about this! Most players know for most of the season if they plan to go pro when the season is over. We know from reporting that Castagna was NOT going to go pro with Utah this season, meaning he has only had the last two weeks—which, again, were focused on the playoffs—to figure out what he wants to do now. You'd think Jonathan would sit down with not just the Flames but also his family and current team and talk about this. But his team flew back to Ithaca yesterday morning and it's now just him and the Flames brass. I'm sure he's being as thoughtful as he can, but I don't know how you could possibly accurately weigh all the options under these circumstances.

Stunningly naive take. Porter Martone signed with the Flyers less than 24 hours after his team lost a game in the most excruciating way that would've sent them to the frozen four.

[BearLover]

I'll say one thing about Castagna—this whole thing about Calgary sending a bunch of execs to his Colorado hotel and putting a full court press on him to sign feels rushed and a little unfair to him. He just got traded and was focused on the playoffs; he's barely had time to think about this! Most players know for most of the season if they plan to go pro when the season is over. We know from reporting that Castagna was NOT going to go pro with Utah this season, meaning he has only had the last two weeks—which, again, were focused on the playoffs—to figure out what he wants to do now. You'd think Jonathan would sit down with not just the Flames but also his family and current team and talk about this. But his team flew back to Ithaca yesterday morning and it's now just him and the Flames brass. I'm sure he's being as thoughtful as he can, but I don't know how you could possibly accurately weigh all the options under these circumstances.

Stunningly naive take. Porter Martone signed with the Flyers less than 24 hours after his team lost a game in the most excruciating way that would've sent them to the frozen four.

Did you not read my post? I said that most players know all year whether they will sign. It has been reported that Castagna planned NOT to sign until 2 weeks ago, when he got traded to the Flames, and since then he's been busy with the playoffs. He hasn't had time to think about it. "Stunningly naive," really? What a randomly rude thing to say. Yes, I am fully aware of Martone. The reason he signed right away is because he was planning on doing so all season.

[scoop85]

I'll say one thing about Castagna—this whole thing about Calgary sending a bunch of execs to his Colorado hotel and putting a full court press on him to sign feels rushed and a little unfair to him. He just got traded and was focused on the playoffs; he's barely had time to think about this! Most players know for most of the season if they plan to go pro when the season is over. We know from reporting that Castagna was NOT going to go pro with Utah this season, meaning he has only had the last two weeks—which, again, were focused on the playoffs—to figure out what he wants to do now. You'd think Jonathan would sit down with not just the Flames but also his family and current team and talk about this. But his team flew back to Ithaca yesterday morning and it's now just him and the Flames brass. I'm sure he's being as thoughtful as he can, but I don't know how you could possibly accurately weigh all the options under these circumstances.

Stunningly naive take. Porter Martone signed with the Flyers less than 24 hours after his team lost a game in the most excruciating way that would've sent them to the frozen four.

Did you not read my post? I said that most players know all year whether they will sign. It has been reported that Castagna planned NOT to sign until 2 weeks ago, when he got traded to the Flames, and since then he's been busy with the playoffs. He hasn't had time to think about it. "Stunningly naive," really? What a randomly rude thing to say. Yes, I am fully aware of Martone. The reason he signed right away is because he was planning on doing so all season.

Sorry you feel offended, but if you don't believe that a guy like Castagna, along with his family and agent, weren't discussing and planning for this scenario the moment the trade went down, then your post comes off as naive to me. Maybe be others here think like you do, but I suspect the vast majority would take my view.

[BearLover]

I'll say one thing about Castagna—this whole thing about Calgary sending a bunch of execs to his Colorado hotel and putting a full court press on him to sign feels rushed and a little unfair to him. He just got traded and was focused on the playoffs; he's barely had time to think about this! Most players know for most of the season if they plan to go pro when the season is over. We know from reporting that Castagna was NOT going to go pro with Utah this season, meaning he has only had the last two weeks—which, again, were focused on the playoffs—to figure out what he wants to do now. You'd think Jonathan would sit down with not just the Flames but also his family and current team and talk about this. But his team flew back to Ithaca yesterday morning and it's now just him and the Flames brass. I'm sure he's being as thoughtful as he can, but I don't know how you could possibly accurately weigh all the options under these circumstances.

Stunningly naive take. Porter Martone signed with the Flyers less than 24 hours after his team lost a game in the most excruciating way that would've sent them to the frozen four.

Did you not read my post? I said that most players know all year whether they will sign. It has been reported that Castagna planned NOT to sign until 2 weeks ago, when he got traded to the Flames, and since then he's been busy with the playoffs. He hasn't had time to think about it. "Stunningly naive," really? What a randomly rude thing to say. Yes, I am fully aware of Martone. The reason he signed right away is because he was planning on doing so all season.

Sorry you feel offended, but if you don't believe that a guy like Castagna, along with his family and agent, weren't discussing and planning for this scenario the moment the trade went down, then your post comes off as naive to me. Maybe be others here think like you do, but I suspect the vast majority would take my view.

I'm sure they have been planning for it, but when you're in the most stressful time of the season, and then suddenly it's over, and then the next day you're asked to sign, that does not seem like enough time to make the biggest decision of your life. As I said, these decisions usually take months. In Castagna's case, he knows nobody in the Flames organization, knows nothing about Calgary (he said himself he's never been there). He was planning on going back to school until two weeks ago! 

[stereax]

The timeline is definitely condensed but also, I'd expect if the plan was to not sign in Utah and Utah was aware of that (because at the end of the day, that's still a rumor, and hockey insiders are notorious for spreading rumors to please certain parties and get more information), that Casty and company were also aware that he'd probably be traded at some point and were preparing for it. (Yes, despite Casty saying it was a surprise. It was probably more a surprise he was traded in the Weegar deal than it was he got traded. He was probably expecting something more like the Ike Howard trade.) The timing does look rough, especially if you don't know how, frankly, incestuous hockey is at the top. It's the same group of like, thirty-two GMs and another thirty to fifty agents who do 99% of the contract work. Everyone knows everyone and tampering is always a thing even if they say it isn't.

Jonny Castagna is not stupid. Neither are his parents (who I've talked to briefly at one point), who are certainly in the room with him. Neither is his agent, Patrick Morris, who represents FIFTY current NHL contracts. If they had serious concerns about Calgary being a fit for Casty, someone would step in and get him on a bus back to Ithaca or Etobicoke, Ontario. It's ultimately his choice in the end as to signing, yes, but he has at least three, if not more, strong advocates for him in his corner who are a million times more informed than any of us.

I'm of the opinion (and this is just my pure speculation) that Casty wanted to go pro after this season even dating back closer to the start of it, but that the main thing checking him from doing so was a perceived (and probably correctly so) lack of opportunity with Utah. Once the trade happened, he and his camp have probably been in communication with the Flames on the daily, or close to it, aware of the timeline and cognizant of the ELC burn year. Everyone at this point is aware of what everyone else wants. It's just a matter of getting it done.

(Also, I suspect there's a reason everyone is waiting for the Flames to come into town and for Casty to try to get on the ice with them before signing.)

All this to say - BL does have a valid point in that it looks super rushed. At the same time, the people in the know have probably been working on this for months, at least. Trades don't usually happen overnight. Guys who are on the outs with organizations know that. Possible fits are already being investigated. And there's a reason Casty lost on Friday and hasn't yet signed, whereas Martone lost on Saturday and signed the next day. ELCs are highly standardized; that's likely not the reason why. (I doubt that the contract would be made or broken over A/B bonuses.) It's because everyone is trying to make sure this is the correct decision, that the contract is proper, that Casty's ready to make the jump into the NHL. On all sides. Because you can't go back to Cornell hockey from an NHL deal, so you need to be sure that it's what you want.

[BearLover]

Just to be clear--Castagna (reportedly) didn't want to sign with Utah after this season, but he still could have signed with Utah after next season. Yes, he could wait a few months at that point and test free agency, but plenty of players do sign with the team that drafted them after their senior year ends. If this happened, Castagna would have probably gotten an NHL game and burned a year off his entry contract (if I understand correctly how it works). Castagna seems like a loyal guy and I'd guess there'd be a good chance of signing with Utah after all, even if he came back to Cornell next season.

I am certain that Castagna, his family, and his advisor are taking their time as best they can and making as informed a decision as they can. But on such a condensed timeline it doesn't necessarily matter how smart or meticulous you are. He's ultimately going to have to make a rushed decision based on vibes. Like stereax said, there's a reason Martone signed a few minutes after his team was eliminated, and Castagna has not yet signed.

I disagree with one thing stereax said, which is that Castagna wanted to sign close to the start of this season. This I doubt. He had an underwhelming sophomore year. The hype didn't start to build until well into this season. That, plus the fact he'd be buried in the center depth chart in Utah, probably made it so he didn't think much about going pro at all. I would guess that for most of the year he just figured he'd be back for his senior year.

Last thing I'll mention in response to what Trotsky said--Schafer supports his players, whatever they end up choosing. But I wouldn't say Schafer encouraged players to leave. Schafer has said publicly that whenever a player is considering such a decision, Schafer sits down with them and explains what they're giving up: playing at Lynah, graduating with their classmates, Senior Night. Schafer also talked to his players about past Cornell players who have made the jump, and how things turned out for them. This is a measured approach that I'm sure any good college coach employs when his player is faced with this decision. I hope Castagna had the chance to sit down with Casey in the same manner, though I guess that would have been a virtual meeting from Castagna's Colorado hotel if it happened at all.