Alumni in the pros 25-26

[stereax]

Ultimately players will do what is best for them, which is proper.  IMO, based on what has happened with early departures in recent history, forwards should go, goalies should stay, and defensemen are case-by-case.

Forwards should not go. It's a case by case basis, obviously, and to be honest Castagna has a much higher likelihood of success than eg. Bancroft or Angello did when they left. But our early departures have failed to crack the NHL far more often than not regardless of position, and anyone considering leaving before graduation should exercise extreme caution.

AHL salaries are (considerably) lower than a typical intro finance role most Cornell hockey graduates get right out of college.

It's not just Cornell's .... anywhere when player's leave, they're not cracking an NHL lineup more often than not. And that wouldn't matter if they stayed 2, 3, 4 years.  Which Harvard "stars" in the last 5 years stayed 4 years? Adam Fox? (see below).  This isn't about what I (or anyone) think is best for them - I've ranted about that for 30 years and you might as well save your breath.  To me it's better if 99% of the players stayed 4 years. But no player has never listened to me. Until about 2015 or so, you could count on 3 years out of players who were NHL ready. Now you're lucky for 2. And because of the free agency rules, teams push to get drafted players out after 3. If a player stays for their 4th year, it's because they are looking to get away from their drafted team very specifically.

Henry Thrun recently

In 2017, Harvard made the Frozen Four with drafted players Tyler Moy, Alexander Kerfoot, and Sean Malone all staying for their senior year and producing over a point per game. (Kerfoot has since had a long NHL career of course.)

In general almost no one leaves Harvard early, 2023 being the exception.

2107 may as well be 150 years ago. And Moy was a late pick, didn't do much for 3 years, never played in the NHL. Malone was hurt a lot in his time - went on to play 2 NHL games - showing, as I said, that it doesn't matter if they stay 3 or 4, most of them aren't getting NHL time anyway. Kerfoot managed to carve out a decent career somehow. Cornell's duo has had a much better 3 years than any of those Harvard guys did at that point.

Wasn't Kerfoot also draft dodging?

[Iceberg]

Fox left after this junior year and so did Ryan Donato, so there are quite a few additional examples.

[BearLover]

Fox left after this junior year and so did Ryan Donato, so there are quite a few additional examples.

Getting three years out of Fox is more than probably any other school could have gotten, maybe excluding a couple of the other Ivies.

[stereax]

Fox left after this junior year and so did Ryan Donato, so there are quite a few additional examples.

Getting three years out of Fox is more than probably any other school could have gotten, maybe excluding a couple of the other Ivies.

Part of that was Fox begging his way to the Rangers, no?

[BearLover]

Fox left after this junior year and so did Ryan Donato, so there are quite a few additional examples.

Getting three years out of Fox is more than probably any other school could have gotten, maybe excluding a couple of the other Ivies.

Part of that was Fox begging his way to the Rangers, no?

I think that happened after his junior year, and he was threatening to return for his senior year. Can't really remember though

[andyw2100]

Ultimately players will do what is best for them, which is proper.  IMO, based on what has happened with early departures in recent history, forwards should go, goalies should stay, and defensemen are case-by-case.

Forwards should not go. It's a case by case basis, obviously, and to be honest Castagna has a much higher likelihood of success than eg. Bancroft or Angello did when they left. But our early departures have failed to crack the NHL far more often than not regardless of position, and anyone considering leaving before graduation should exercise extreme caution.

AHL salaries are (considerably) lower than a typical intro finance role most Cornell hockey graduates get right out of college.

It's not just Cornell's .... anywhere when player's leave, they're not cracking an NHL lineup more often than not. And that wouldn't matter if they stayed 2, 3, 4 years.  Which Harvard "stars" in the last 5 years stayed 4 years? Adam Fox? (see below).  This isn't about what I (or anyone) think is best for them - I've ranted about that for 30 years and you might as well save your breath.  To me it's better if 99% of the players stayed 4 years. But no player has never listened to me. Until about 2015 or so, you could count on 3 years out of players who were NHL ready. Now you're lucky for 2. And because of the free agency rules, teams push to get drafted players out after 3. If a player stays for their 4th year, it's because they are looking to get away from their drafted team very specifically.

Henry Thrun recently

In 2017, Harvard made the Frozen Four with drafted players Tyler Moy, Alexander Kerfoot, and Sean Malone all staying for their senior year and producing over a point per game. (Kerfoot has since had a long NHL career of course.)

In general almost no one leaves Harvard early, 2023 being the exception.

2107 may as well be 150 years ago. And Moy was a late pick, didn't do much for 3 years, never played in the NHL. Malone was hurt a lot in his time - went on to play 2 NHL games - showing, as I said, that it doesn't matter if they stay 3 or 4, most of them aren't getting NHL time anyway. Kerfoot managed to carve out a decent career somehow. Cornell's duo has had a much better 3 years than any of those Harvard guys did at that point. Calling any of them stars as of the end of their junior year is a big stretch. ... Also Kerfoot did not play with the team who drafted him, probably meaning they just didn't care if he stayed.  Certainly if you have a situation where a drafted team doesn't care, then players may stay. I don't think that's the case with Castagna or Walsh though. Bruins are excited for them.

[andyw2100]

2107 may as well be 150 years ago.

Or 81 years in the future. (Sorry. Couldn't resist.)

[Trotsky]

2107 may as well be 150 years ago.

Or 81 years in the future. (Sorry. Couldn't resist.)

Mandatory.

[The Rancor]

I guess I was like 60/40 on Casty staying for a Senior year, especially if Walsh was staying, in order to win a Natty. But now, 95/5 that he goes. I'd love to see him back, but, when you get a chance to go to the show, even the AHL, you have to go. I'm not sure, beyond hardware, he has to prove or develop while at Cornell.

[BearLover]

I guess I was like 60/40 on Casty staying for a Senior year, especially if Walsh was staying, in order to win a Natty. But now, 95/5 that he goes. I'd love to see him back, but, when you get a chance to go to the show, even the AHL, you have to go. I'm not sure, beyond hardware, he has to prove or develop while at Cornell.

The AHL is not the show. Not even close. Many players each season have the opportunity to sign an AHL deal and opt to return to college, rightfully so.

[Dafatone]

I guess I was like 60/40 on Casty staying for a Senior year, especially if Walsh was staying, in order to win a Natty. But now, 95/5 that he goes. I'd love to see him back, but, when you get a chance to go to the show, even the AHL, you have to go. I'm not sure, beyond hardware, he has to prove or develop while at Cornell.

The AHL is not the show. Not even close. Many players each season have the opportunity to sign an AHL deal and opt to return to college, rightfully so.

The AHL plays about 40 more games than a college season and its players are full-time hockey players. I have to figure it's better for development in that regard than staying in college, at least on average.

[BearLover]

I guess I was like 60/40 on Casty staying for a Senior year, especially if Walsh was staying, in order to win a Natty. But now, 95/5 that he goes. I'd love to see him back, but, when you get a chance to go to the show, even the AHL, you have to go. I'm not sure, beyond hardware, he has to prove or develop while at Cornell.

The AHL is not the show. Not even close. Many players each season have the opportunity to sign an AHL deal and opt to return to college, rightfully so.

The AHL plays about 40 more games than a college season and its players are full-time hockey players. I have to figure it's better for development in that regard than staying in college, at least on average.

Depends on a lot of factors. Castagna or Walsh would certainly get way more playing time and play way more roles (PK, PP, etc) at Cornell. But my main point is that it's not "the show," in the sense that life in the AHL is not luxurious in the least, from salaries to road trips to the grind of 80 games a year.

[Dafatone]

I guess I was like 60/40 on Casty staying for a Senior year, especially if Walsh was staying, in order to win a Natty. But now, 95/5 that he goes. I'd love to see him back, but, when you get a chance to go to the show, even the AHL, you have to go. I'm not sure, beyond hardware, he has to prove or develop while at Cornell.

The AHL is not the show. Not even close. Many players each season have the opportunity to sign an AHL deal and opt to return to college, rightfully so.

The AHL plays about 40 more games than a college season and its players are full-time hockey players. I have to figure it's better for development in that regard than staying in college, at least on average.

Depends on a lot of factors. Castagna or Walsh would certainly get way more playing time and play way more roles (PK, PP, etc) at Cornell. But my main point is that it's not "the show," in the sense that life in the AHL is not luxurious in the least, from salaries to road trips to the grind of 80 games a year.

That's certainly true, though I'd guess there would be a signing bonus involved.

[stereax]

I guess I was like 60/40 on Casty staying for a Senior year, especially if Walsh was staying, in order to win a Natty. But now, 95/5 that he goes. I'd love to see him back, but, when you get a chance to go to the show, even the AHL, you have to go. I'm not sure, beyond hardware, he has to prove or develop while at Cornell.

The AHL is not the show. Not even close. Many players each season have the opportunity to sign an AHL deal and opt to return to college, rightfully so.

The AHL plays about 40 more games than a college season and its players are full-time hockey players. I have to figure it's better for development in that regard than staying in college, at least on average.

People like the Flyers vis-a-vis Porter Martone are on record about the difference between the CHL (which is, I think, a 70ish game season and then playoff series) and NCAA -

He's up 9lbs and down 4% body fat.

"It's not just weight. I feel stronger, more explosive. My muscle density is better. I can feel it in battles and around the net."

You can tell.

"I'm shocked at how fast his body is changing. When I talk to the trainers, they are like man you can see it changing," Armstrong said. "The biggest part of it too, in Junior, they play 72 games. Now they're playing 36 playoff games, maybe 45 or something like that, where he's getting a lot more gym time."

Once you hit a pro schedule, you have less time to train, to learn, to hit the gym, to do stuff like that.

Your average AHL age by team is between a high 23 and low 26. Average NCAA is generally between a high 20 (BU, go away, you're an outlier) and a low 23. So you do "graduate" a bit, agewise, and you get more onto a "pro" schedule again - but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better for your development. There are a bunch of factors involved here. (Including the fact that the AHL is a fighting league and can occasionally devolve into a gongshow...)

Again, we don't even know if the plan for Castagna is to have him season in the A or try to jump him straight into the NHL. We don't know if the Flames view him as a guy who maxes out at a bottom-six center or if they think there's potential for him to be a 2C. That's something that really only the Flames and Casty himself are aware of.

[stereax]

I guess I was like 60/40 on Casty staying for a Senior year, especially if Walsh was staying, in order to win a Natty. But now, 95/5 that he goes. I'd love to see him back, but, when you get a chance to go to the show, even the AHL, you have to go. I'm not sure, beyond hardware, he has to prove or develop while at Cornell.

The AHL is not the show. Not even close. Many players each season have the opportunity to sign an AHL deal and opt to return to college, rightfully so.

The AHL plays about 40 more games than a college season and its players are full-time hockey players. I have to figure it's better for development in that regard than staying in college, at least on average.

Depends on a lot of factors. Castagna or Walsh would certainly get way more playing time and play way more roles (PK, PP, etc) at Cornell. But my main point is that it's not "the show," in the sense that life in the AHL is not luxurious in the least, from salaries to road trips to the grind of 80 games a year.

That's certainly true, though I'd guess there would be a signing bonus involved.

SB is capped at I think 10% of contract value on ELCs - like Bancroft's contract value is 975k (950k base salary + 25k bonus at 5 GP in the NHL), so his SB was 97,500. That being said, for guys on ELCs, they have a standard contract value, plus the minors salary is WAY lower - for Bancroft, 85k. In that sense, he "makes" just shy of 200k this year. However, given his production, it's somewhat unlikely he gets another NHL deal - and the WBS Pens point out that the average AHL salary is only between 40k and 90k. Yeah, the SB is a lump sum payment, but...