Cornell @ Colgate, 12/01/2023

[BearLover]

Up to 17. How did we lose to Harvard, Princeton, and tie Dartmouth?

The same way BU lost to us.

[Trotsky]

It's a long season
And you gotta trust it

[Dumbdumbs]

Sullivan Mack reminds me of Kyle Betts. A forward who is reliable on defense and the penalty kill, smart and always knows where to be on the ice...but can never bury his chances.

I mean, they're both likable, I guess. But Kyle Betts was a Top 6 forward and one of the team's leaders, and Mack (I'm rooting for him... like all Cornell players) will only turn out that way if all our talented freshmen turn into pumpkins.

Betts always put up a decent number of points, had a hat trick early in his Cornell career, and (being the fastest player on the team) created lots of breakaways and odd-man rushes (of the kind fans go gaga over O'Leary doing these days). It's true that Betts didn't have some magic scoring touch, so if you want to ding him for not finishing on most of those chances... be my guest. But "reliable" is also underselling Betts on his defense, when he was the best penalty killer (forward or defenseman) during his upperclassman seasons.

Would love to see Mack make the type of leap before his senior year that compares, but between his ceiling surely being lower and the lack of chances he'll get with so much more talent around him... one shouldn't bet on it.

[upprdeck]

Big game tonight..  Colgate only has 5 D, we need to continue to press that advantage in the 2nd game.

clarkson/Union/RPI/STL have 2 games in hand on us now. All of them could go by us before the games even out.

[ugarte]

Sullivan Mack reminds me of Kyle Betts. A forward who is reliable on defense and the penalty kill, smart and always knows where to be on the ice...but can never bury his chances.

I mean, they're both likable, I guess. But Kyle Betts was a Top 6 forward and one of the team's leaders, and Mack (I'm rooting for him... like all Cornell players) will only turn out that way if all our talented freshmen turn into pumpkins.

Betts always put up a decent number of points, had a hat trick early in his Cornell career, and (being the fastest player on the team) created lots of breakaways and odd-man rushes (of the kind fans go gaga over O'Leary doing these days). It's true that Betts didn't have some magic scoring touch, so if you want to ding him for not finishing on most of those chances... be my guest. But "reliable" is also underselling Betts on his defense, when he was the best penalty killer (forward or defenseman) during his upperclassman seasons.

Would love to see Mack make the type of leap before his senior year that compares, but between his ceiling surely being lower and the lack of chances he'll get with so much more talent around him... one shouldn't bet on it.

i like the new guy

i really do think sullivan mack is our diamond in the rough, though. i feel like he's always doing good things in the right place but is just not quite there and doesn't have the full trust of the coaching staff.

[Trotsky]

Big game tonight..  Colgate only has 5 D, we need to continue to press that advantage in the 2nd game.

clarkson/Union/RPI/STL have 2 games in hand on us now. All of them could go by us before the games even out.

We have been maddeningly inconsistent against Colgate since La Peste.  It would be great to bank all 6 (spits) points.

[BearLover]

Sullivan Mack reminds me of Kyle Betts. A forward who is reliable on defense and the penalty kill, smart and always knows where to be on the ice...but can never bury his chances.

I mean, they're both likable, I guess. But Kyle Betts was a Top 6 forward and one of the team's leaders, and Mack (I'm rooting for him... like all Cornell players) will only turn out that way if all our talented freshmen turn into pumpkins.

Betts always put up a decent number of points, had a hat trick early in his Cornell career, and (being the fastest player on the team) created lots of breakaways and odd-man rushes (of the kind fans go gaga over O'Leary doing these days). It's true that Betts didn't have some magic scoring touch, so if you want to ding him for not finishing on most of those chances... be my guest. But "reliable" is also underselling Betts on his defense, when he was the best penalty killer (forward or defenseman) during his upperclassman seasons.

Would love to see Mack make the type of leap before his senior year that compares, but between his ceiling surely being lower and the lack of chances he'll get with so much more talent around him... one shouldn't bet on it.

I disagree with this. Betts became a regular top 6 forward only during his senior year. He also became a leader (defined as being a captain, since I don't know what goes on behind the scenes) only during his senior year, when the three captains were the three seniors because everybody else had left. Betts was a 3rd or 4th line guy and penalty killer his first three seasons. He was very good in that role, but that was his role.

Like Betts, Mack is a forward with lots of speed who doesn't play on a top line and who kills penalties. Mack creates the same types of rushes Betts did (see last night's game). They both clearly understand the game of hockey and find those soft areas by the goal, but when the one-timer pass comes they tend to blast it into the goalie's chest. I don't know how much you've watched Mack the past couple seasons, but he definitely leads the team in the ratio of goal posts:goals. His freshman year in particular he was one of the most snake-bitten players I've ever seen. He's also been hurt a lot more than Betts ever was, which has limited him significantly.

I think their ceilings are the same, skill-wise. When you talk of there being "so much more talent around [Mack]," it seems you are suggesting Betts didn't have the same level of talent surrounding him? That was true Betts' senior year, when he finally got consistent top 6-time. But that's because COVID nuked the hockey roster, causing many of the best/most experienced players to transfer or go pro. Betts' junior year, 2019-20, was probably the single most talented team under Schafer. Yeah, Mack maybe won't be a top 6 guy next year, but Betts probably wouldn't have been either, if his senior year took place without much of the surrounding talent choosing to depart.

Overall, I view both Mack and Betts as cerebral, speedy forwards who are great defensively but lack finishing touch.

[billhoward]

Up to 17. How did we lose to Harvard, Princeton, and tie Dartmouth?

Oh, thank you for the setup line.

It's the system.

[Trotsky]

Sullivan Mack reminds me of Kyle Betts. A forward who is reliable on defense and the penalty kill, smart and always knows where to be on the ice...but can never bury his chances.

I mean, they're both likable, I guess. But Kyle Betts was a Top 6 forward and one of the team's leaders, and Mack (I'm rooting for him... like all Cornell players) will only turn out that way if all our talented freshmen turn into pumpkins.

Betts always put up a decent number of points, had a hat trick early in his Cornell career, and (being the fastest player on the team) created lots of breakaways and odd-man rushes (of the kind fans go gaga over O'Leary doing these days). It's true that Betts didn't have some magic scoring touch, so if you want to ding him for not finishing on most of those chances... be my guest. But "reliable" is also underselling Betts on his defense, when he was the best penalty killer (forward or defenseman) during his upperclassman seasons.

Would love to see Mack make the type of leap before his senior year that compares, but between his ceiling surely being lower and the lack of chances he'll get with so much more talent around him... one shouldn't bet on it.

I disagree with this. Betts became a regular top 6 forward only during his senior year. He also became a leader (defined as being a captain, since I don't know what goes on behind the scenes) only during his senior year, when the three captains were the three seniors because everybody else had left. Betts was a 3rd of 4th line guy and penalty killer his first three seasons. He was very good in that role, but that was his role.

Like Betts, Mack is a forward with lots of speed who doesn't play on a top line and who kills penalties. Mack creates the same types of rushes Betts did (see last night's game). They both clearly understand the game of hockey and find those soft areas by the goal, but when the one-timer pass comes they tend to blast it into the goalie's chest. I don't know how much you've watched Mack the past couple seasons, but he definitely leads the team in the ratio of goal posts:goals. His freshman year in particular he was one of the most snake-bitten players I've ever seen. He's also been hurt a lot more than Betts ever was, which has limited him significantly.

I think their ceilings are the same, skill-wise. When you talk of there being "so much more talent around [Mack]," it seems you are suggesting Betts didn't have the same level of talent surrounding him? That was true Betts' senior year, when he finally got consistent top 6-time. But that's because COVID nuked the hockey roster, causing many of the best/most experienced players to transfer or go pro. Betts' junior year, 2019-20, was probably the single most talented team under Schafer. Yeah, Mack maybe won't be a top 6 guy next year, but Betts probably wouldn't have been either, if his senior year took place without much of the surrounding talent choosing to depart.

Overall, I view both Mack and Betts as cerebral, speedy forwards who are great defensively but lack finishing touch.

This is the perfect take.  Now, what have you done with BearLover?

[VIEWfromK]

That Colgate team sure knows how to hang around against Cornell.  The Big Red were a do or die save by Shane away from another potential overtime situation at that arena if you imagine things playing out the same after the save.  We were down by the Big Red bench so as we saw Shane swim across to make the save we could also see the bench erupt in awe in our peripheral vision.  Pretty neat.  Seger was a beast in many categories.  Took every D zone face off it felt like and was in on every goal.  I was frustrated in the second when Psenicka led a two on one but skated himself out of shooting position because he was waiting for a passing lane to open.  He totally redeemed himself on the empty netter though.  He had a two on one with Seger who was sitting on a hat trick and instead of trying to get it over to him he was thinking shot the whole time.  They gotta start somewhere with that mentality.  Robertson had another nice game driving the play.  Had the golden opportunity on the first power play from below the dot that went high and made the Panarin to Zibanejad cross ice one time pass to Bancroft on the 3-1 power play goal.  It's hard to find much fault in his game but I'd like to see him stay on his feet in front of the goal on the PK.  There were two times in the third where he laid out to try and make plays.  The first time it worked on a Chorske stuff but the second time he whiffed on a cross seam pass on the 3-2 goal.  I feel like staying upright gives you more chance to make a play by getting your stick in multiple lanes.  I don't have any real world experience in this department mind you.  Needless to say the kid is gonna be a stud.

[BearLover]

That Colgate team sure knows how to hang around against Cornell.  The Big Red were a do or die save by Shane away from another potential overtime situation at that arena if you imagine things playing out the same after the save.  We were down by the Big Red bench so as we saw Shane swim across to make the save we could also see the bench erupt in awe in our peripheral vision.  Pretty neat.  Seger was a beast in many categories.  Took every D zone face off it felt like and was in on every goal.  I was frustrated in the second when Psenicka led a two on one but skated himself out of shooting position because he was waiting for a passing lane to open.  He totally redeemed himself on the empty netter though.  He had a two on one with Seger who was sitting on a hat trick and instead of trying to get it over to him he was thinking shot the whole time.  They gotta start somewhere with that mentality.  Robertson had another nice game driving the play.  Had the golden opportunity on the first power play from below the dot that went high and made the Panarin to Zibanejad cross ice one time pass to Bancroft on the 3-1 power play goal.  It's hard to find much fault in his game but I'd like to see him stay on his feet in front of the goal on the PK.  There were two times in the third where he laid out to try and make plays.  The first time it worked on a Chorske stuff but the second time he whiffed on a cross seam pass on the 3-2 goal.  I feel like staying upright gives you more chance to make a play by getting your stick in multiple lanes.  I don't have any real world experience in this department mind you.  Needless to say the kid is gonna be a stud.

I wasn't able to tell from watching the webcast that it was Robertson who went down to block the pass. I also have no real-world experience in this department and I'm curious when a defender is supposed to go down to block a pass from behind the cage. It did seem high risk.

Robertson has incredible vision and it feels like he's the only thing holding the PP together. I'm curious if he has been working on his shot. Since he is always thinking pass-first, the opposing team knows they don't have to take away his shooting lane to the same degree and can instead take away the four pass options. If Robertson were more a threat to shoot you'd think it would really give the PK headaches. I guess you could say the same about Adam Fox and that doesn't seem to stop him from being one of the best players in the NHL, though.

[Trotsky]

If Robertson were more a threat to shoot you'd think it would really give the PK headaches. I guess you could say the same about Adam Fox and that doesn't seem to stop him from being one of the best players in the NHL, though.

The BU announcer compared Robertson to Malinski.   If he develops in that direction, look out.

[VIEWfromK]

After Robertson tried that one shot on the first power play he got the puck another time in the same spot with the same opening but chose to force a pass into traffic in front instead of taking the shot.  It's a unique spot for a defenseman to find themselves in.  I'd say it's not typical for recent Cornell power play designs but I'm all for trying to see what sticks.  The first two power plays yesterday played out without any whistles.  They had full posession of the puck in their first opportunity for 1:45.  They had two nice chances but they do not subscribe to the theory or peppering the goalie with shots and finding a rebound.  It worked on the second goal when 5 on 5 Penney entered the zone, peeled back to wait for traffic, shot the puck and Seger banged in the rebound.  They generally have the size for mismatches in front but they tended to prefer to look for tips off the pass instead last night.

[arugula]

Up to 17. How did we lose to Harvard, Princeton, and tie Dartmouth?

The same way BU lost to us.

I agree as to H but as to Dartmouth and Princeton.  We should be way better than them.  We are closer to BU than they should be to us.

[arugula]

Up to 17. How did we lose to Harvard, Princeton, and tie Dartmouth?

The same way BU lost to us.

I agree as to H but as to Dartmouth and Princeton.  We should be way better than them.  We are closer to BU than they should be to us.

They being D and P