@ RPI Fri 2/11/22

[Dafatone]

Just gonna say, watching crowds in our games be largely masked makes me jealous. If crowds did that here (South Dakota), I'd be in more crowds.

Serious question, not trying to be insulting or anything, what would make you comfortable being maskless in an arena again? Is it a certain (low) number of local cases? The CDC saying you don't need a mask in an arena?

In all seriousness, I don't know. I'm hoping things continue to improve, and I'll figure that out down the road. I figure when other parts of life require me to be in public spaces more often, I'll start doing more voluntary fun public space stuff, but we'll see.

[CU2007]

Just gonna say, watching crowds in our games be largely masked makes me jealous. If crowds did that here (South Dakota), I'd be in more crowds.

Serious question, not trying to be insulting or anything, what would make you comfortable being maskless in an arena again? Is it a certain (low) number of local cases? The CDC saying you don't need a mask in an arena?

In all seriousness, I don't know. I'm hoping things continue to improve, and I'll figure that out down the road. I figure when other parts of life require me to be in public spaces more often, I'll start doing more voluntary fun public space stuff, but we'll see.

That's fair. Appreciate the insight.

[BearLover]

Couldn't it just as easily be argued cancelling athletics amounted to treating athletes worse than members of other clubs that were allowed to hold events last year?

Cornell Glee Club?  Year and a half of no live performances.  Cornell Orchestra?  The 10/3/21 concert was the first in over a year.  Do your homework.

Well, those restrictions were questionable also. I was thinking of things like debate club, which had a full year of virtual competitions.

Sp you wanted "virtual" hockey?  Or "virtual" lacrosse?  Your comparison is laughable.

Hockey with no fans and regular testing like all other leagues did in a safe and successful manner.

We really have no idea how safe much of anything, hockey included, was, other than that we can't definitively say that a whole team dropped dead of COVID or anything.

You could say that the amount of COVID spread by the Ivies playing college hockey would be relatively small compared to the country at large, but that's true for every single activity in avacuum, so following that logic, why cancel anything.

I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any stories about someone involved with college hockey dying or having a severe case last year. Nor in the professional sports that held seasons. Obviously COVID can be spread to those outside of sports, but at that point there are multiple degrees of separation from hockey as the proximate cause. Your points are reasonable, though.

[scoop85]

Couldn't it just as easily be argued cancelling athletics amounted to treating athletes worse than members of other clubs that were allowed to hold events last year?

Cornell Glee Club?  Year and a half of no live performances.  Cornell Orchestra?  The 10/3/21 concert was the first in over a year.  Do your homework.

Well, those restrictions were questionable also. I was thinking of things like debate club, which had a full year of virtual competitions.

Sp you wanted "virtual" hockey?  Or "virtual" lacrosse?  Your comparison is laughable.

Hockey with no fans and regular testing like all other leagues did in a safe and successful manner.

We really have no idea how safe much of anything, hockey included, was, other than that we can't definitively say that a whole team dropped dead of COVID or anything.

You could say that the amount of COVID spread by the Ivies playing college hockey would be relatively small compared to the country at large, but that's true for every single activity in avacuum, so following that logic, why cancel anything.

I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any stories about someone involved with college hockey dying or having a severe case last year. Nor in the professional sports that held seasons. Obviously COVID can be spread to those outside of sports, but at that point there are multiple degrees of separation from hockey as the proximate cause. Your points are reasonable, though.

Marco Rossi, who was the Wild's 1st round draft choice in 2020, had a serious bout with COVID that essentially kept him out for a full season. He eventually recovered and is playing again.

[upprdeck]

you can say it worked out somewhat well.. but we also have a coach that is not coaching right now because of covid.  many others in the other sports had issues as well.   we also had no clue as to whether people would get way sicker than they did when the decision to play was made.

from a purely safety point of view the decision to not play was 100% the correct choice.. you limited exposure and travel.

sure it sucked as a player and as a fan.

The only real dumb decision was the lack of control at the top to fix the stupid rules on athletes that the Ivies enforce across the board anyway..  had they at least told the kids how it would be handled on the other end many kids may not have had to transfer and screw up the sports and the academics.

[Al DeFlorio]

you can say it worked out somewhat well.. but we also have a coach that is not coaching right now because of covid.  many others in the other sports had issues as well.   we also had no clue as to whether people would get way sicker than they did when the decision to play was made.

from a purely safety point of view the decision to not play was 100% the correct choice.. you limited exposure and travel.

sure it sucked as a player and as a fan.

The only real dumb decision was the lack of control at the top to fix the stupid rules on athletes that the Ivies enforce across the board anyway..  had they at least told the kids how it would be handled on the other end many kids may not have had to transfer and screw up the sports and the academics.

+1. BC played 24 hockey games last season, including three postseason.  A fourth postseason was not played with a Covid outbreak at Notre Dame.  BC would play at least 50% more games in a normal season.  You can't tell me Covid wasn't commonplace among college hockey programs last season.

[Scersk '97]

The only real dumb decision was the lack of control at the top to fix the stupid rules on athletes that the Ivies enforce across the board anyway..  had they at least told the kids how it would be handled on the other end many kids may not have had to transfer and screw up the sports and the academics.

I will never forgive the Ivy League for what they did to League athletes with their dithering and lack of compassionate and timely decision making. For me, it was quite symbolic of the hidebound nature of this particular clique; indeed, I am beginning to be of the opinion that being part of the League is holding Cornell back as an institution in all facets.

With all due appreciation of the irony, I would like to see us make a bid to be the "Stanford of the East."

[Swampy]

The only real dumb decision was the lack of control at the top to fix the stupid rules on athletes that the Ivies enforce across the board anyway..  had they at least told the kids how it would be handled on the other end many kids may not have had to transfer and screw up the sports and the academics.

I will never forgive the Ivy League for what they did to League athletes with their dithering and lack of compassionate and timely decision making. For me, it was quite symbolic of the hidebound nature of this particular clique; indeed, I am beginning to be of the opinion that being part of the League is holding Cornell back as an institution in all facets.

With all due appreciation of the irony, I would like to see us make a bid to be the "Stanford of the East."

Not at all likely, or even possible. Consider geography. If we're Stanford, what other institutions would be Berkeley, UCLA, Washington? Or even USC or Oregon?

Once upon a time Brown and Yale were land grant colleges, and Dartmouth was sort of half a land grant. But now MIT is the only elite eastern land grant besides Cornell. And MIT don't do D1 sports. Compare this to the PAC-12, where the entire UC system, ASU, OSU, and WSU are land grants.

Do you really think Cornell would benefit academically by switching from its current, Ivy peer group to one with the likes of Syracuse, Rutgers, UMass, and Penn State? And I pose this with no intent of demeaning these schools. They all have some very excellent departments. But they are not excellent across the board, and their admission and academic standards are a big step down from Cornell's. Moreover, they didn't benefit from Andrew Dickson White's genius, which sought to make Cornell free of "religious, political, and commercial interests." (OK, in modern-day Cornell, two out of three is not terrible.) To accomplish this, White devised the model of a private university contracting with the state. In contrast, schools like Rutgers, UMass, and PSU, which are entirely public, state schools, are subject to more direct political meddling. Do you really want to see academic departments created, merged, or eliminated depending on which way political winds blow in Albany? Or, gods forbid, professors hired or fired at some politician's behest?

[Trotsky]

Cornell benefits from the Ivy label in a number of ways, some even not entirely loathsome.

And it is always funny to see HYPers' disgust.

[osorojo]

Stanford is the "Cornell of the west". Leland modeled his university after Ezra's. You can look it up.

[nshapiro]

And most of the other PAC-12 schools are not academic peers at all.  I Think ASU is regularly ranked as the top party school in the country.

[Scersk '97]

Stanford is the "Cornell of the west". Leland modeled his university after Ezra's. You can look it up.

Re-read what I wrote and consider whether I needed your reference.

[Al DeFlorio]

And most of the other PAC-12 schools are not academic peers at all.  I Think ASU is regularly ranked as the top party school in the country.

Berkeley and UCLA are top notch, and Washington is really good, too.

[Scersk '97]

With all due appreciation of the irony, I would like to see us make a bid to be the "Stanford of the East."

Do you really think Cornell would benefit academically by switching from its current, Ivy peer group to one with the likes of Syracuse, Rutgers, UMass, and Penn State?

A quick response to one notion: Are the Ivies really our peer group? Is it possible that, since we are sufficiently independent (due to our reasonable endowment) in a way that Penn State, Rutgers, and UMass are not and since we are yet strongly state-connected in a way that Syracuse (except for forestry) is not, we are without a true peer? My suggestion is that Cornell is sui generis, but, as the "midwest of the Ivies," often unfairly suffers when compared with its supposed peer group of institutions that it shouldn't be compared with in the first place.

On our own, I don't think anyone serious—particularly internationally—would compare us with Syracuse, Rutgers, UMass, etc., etc. MIT does just fine standing on its own; very few people compare Stanford with its other Pac-12 playmates. Yet we're constantly connected with and compared to a group of institutions that, in my mind, are of a quite different construction and character. I mean this honestly: what do we get, besides some sort of reflected but shaded glory, from our Ivy association that those institutions would not be interested in maintaining if we left the League? Would they kick us out of the library consortium, for example? Will we stop our scientific collaborations? Would they really stop talking to their red-headed stepchild?

Stanford and Northwestern are odd men out in a good way; we seem to be the odd man out in a bad way. I'm kind of tired of it.

[Swampy]

Stanford is the "Cornell of the west". Leland modeled his university after Ezra's. You can look it up.

I'm not questioning this. Leland also offered White the job as founding President, and hired White's former student — David Star Jordan — after White turned down the job. Just under half the faculty were former Cornell instructors when Stanford opened its doors.

But back then Stanford was free and its mission included teaching the virtues of "cooperative" forms of economic organization, and times have changed. Just ask Lizzie Holmes.

Instead, my point is that most of Stanford's intercollegiate athletics is in the PAC-12, which is a big reason for Stanford's athletic success. As evidence, consider Stanford men's lacrosse. Because the PAC-12 doesn't have intercollegiate men's lacrosse, Stanford men's lacrosse plays in the WCLL and MCLA. "Ever heard of 'em?"