Cornell Football 2021

[George64]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

[CU2007]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

[George64]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.
.

[Ken711]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

[Swampy]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

The abysmal season ended months ago, and nothing has happened. So, apparently he does.

[Ken711]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

The abysmal season ended months ago, and nothing has happened. So, apparently he does.

Yep.Apparently he's tied to the hip with Andy Noel until he retires, which could possibly be next year.

[RichH]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

The abysmal season ended months ago, and nothing has happened. So, apparently he does.

Yep.Apparently he's tied to the hip with Andy Noel until he retires, which could possibly be next year.

I said it months ago. Andy is NOT interested in doing a coaching search. Period.

[upprdeck]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

The abysmal season ended months ago, and nothing has happened. So, apparently he does.

Yep.Apparently he's tied to the hip with Andy Noel until he retires, which could possibly be next year.

I said it months ago. Andy is NOT interested in doing a coaching search. Period.

and the university doesnt seem to care how screwed up athletics is either.

[Ken711]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

The abysmal season ended months ago, and nothing has happened. So, apparently he does.

Yep.Apparently he's tied to the hip with Andy Noel until he retires, which could possibly be next year.

I said it months ago. Andy is NOT interested in doing a coaching search. Period.

and the university doesnt seem to care how screwed up athletics is either.

That's the truly sad part.

[nshapiro]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

The abysmal season ended months ago, and nothing has happened. So, apparently he does.

Yep.Apparently he's tied to the hip with Andy Noel until he retires, which could possibly be next year.

I said it months ago. Andy is NOT interested in doing a coaching search. Period.

and the university doesnt seem to care how screwed up athletics is either.

That's the truly sad part.

I don't think that an outsider would think that athletics is screwed up.  
Hockey and wrestling are doing well as expected.
Basketball and Soccer are on the upswing.
Lacrosse is competitive nationally
The only other sport where we have had traditional success is Crew, and I have not seen any complaints here on Elynah.
We all agree that football is a disaster, but what else is?

[upprdeck]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

The abysmal season ended months ago, and nothing has happened. So, apparently he does.

Yep.Apparently he's tied to the hip with Andy Noel until he retires, which could possibly be next year.

I said it months ago. Andy is NOT interested in doing a coaching search. Period.

and the university doesnt seem to care how screwed up athletics is either.

That's the truly sad part.

I don't think that an outsider would think that athletics is screwed up.  
Hockey and wrestling are doing well as expected.
Basketball and Soccer are on the upswing.
Lacrosse is competitive nationally
The only other sport where we have had traditional success is Crew, and I have not seen any complaints here on Elynah.
We all agree that football is a disaster, but what else is?

there is much more to the quality of the teams play and the results on  the field that goes into how well the dept is doing.

maybe ask the players and coaches how its going.

its one of the most dysfunctional units on  campus.  

maybe look at other things. ticketing, youth programs, facilities, budgets, game day setups. lots of things unrelated to the games themselves.

[nshapiro]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

The abysmal season ended months ago, and nothing has happened. So, apparently he does.

Yep.Apparently he's tied to the hip with Andy Noel until he retires, which could possibly be next year.

I said it months ago. Andy is NOT interested in doing a coaching search. Period.

and the university doesnt seem to care how screwed up athletics is either.

That's the truly sad part.

I don't think that an outsider would think that athletics is screwed up.  
Hockey and wrestling are doing well as expected.
Basketball and Soccer are on the upswing.
Lacrosse is competitive nationally
The only other sport where we have had traditional success is Crew, and I have not seen any complaints here on Elynah.
We all agree that football is a disaster, but what else is?

there is much more to the quality of the teams play and the results on  the field that goes into how well the dept is doing.

maybe ask the players and coaches how its going.

its one of the most dysfunctional units on  campus.  

maybe look at other things. ticketing, youth programs, facilities, budgets, game day setups. lots of things unrelated to the games themselves.

I agree that every organization should regularly be doing self-assessments.  and I accept your statement that the quality of the department goes beyond on-field performance. I am just curious how your four lines contain three statements that suggest what to do to examine how athletics is doing, and one statement that unequivocally states it is dysfunctional?  I would not be surprised if you are correct, but I don't feel qualified to make that comment.  I expect that you are way more connected than I am...an alumnus who has not been to campus since covid.

[scoop85]

Maxie Baughan used transfers to upgrade the talent plus some good recruiting.

Yes, things greatly improved during his tenure. In his final three years, his teams were 20-9-1!  Too bad he couldn't keep his fly zipped!  In eight seasons, Archer's teams have won 21 games.
.

Elaborate!!

Baughan became head football coach at Cornell in 1983, and his 1988 team was co-champion of the Ivy League. It was Cornell's first championship since 1971. Baughan was forced to resign as head coach at Cornell after information surfaced about an affair he had with an assistant coach's wife.

They had pretty good success after Baughan with Jim Hofher when he led Cornell to a tie for the Ivy Championship in his very first year.  Hofher finished with a 45–35 overall record in 8 years.  Really, until the football program gets more support from Alumni and Administration, nothing is going to change in a serious way.  Columbia the proverbial bottom dweller in Ivy football for years and years, finally got serious and launched a top to bottom review of what improvements were needed to field a competitive football program. Their improvement shows it can happen at Cornell too.  Does Cornell's administration care? Does David Archer have tenure in coaching regardless of the results in wins/losses?

The abysmal season ended months ago, and nothing has happened. So, apparently he does.

Yep.Apparently he's tied to the hip with Andy Noel until he retires, which could possibly be next year.

I said it months ago. Andy is NOT interested in doing a coaching search. Period.

and the university doesnt seem to care how screwed up athletics is either.

That's the truly sad part.

I don't think that an outsider would think that athletics is screwed up.  
Hockey and wrestling are doing well as expected.
Basketball and Soccer are on the upswing.
Lacrosse is competitive nationally
The only other sport where we have had traditional success is Crew, and I have not seen any complaints here on Elynah.
We all agree that football is a disaster, but what else is?

there is much more to the quality of the teams play and the results on  the field that goes into how well the dept is doing.

maybe ask the players and coaches how its going.

its one of the most dysfunctional units on  campus.  

maybe look at other things. ticketing, youth programs, facilities, budgets, game day setups. lots of things unrelated to the games themselves.

I agree that every organization should regularly be doing self-assessments.  and I accept your statement that the quality of the department goes beyond on-field performance. I am just curious how your four lines contain three statements that suggest what to do to examine how athletics is doing, and one statement that unequivocally states it is dysfunctional?  I would not be surprised if you are correct, but I don't feel qualified to make that comment.  I expect that you are way more connected than I am...an alumnus who has not been to campus since covid.

One thing seems clear is that other than women's hockey (and we'll give them a mulligan this rebuilding year) virtually all our women's teams are mediocre or worse. Even women's lacrosse, which has historically been one of the top 3 Ivy programs with Penn and Princeton, seems to have fallen back a bit.

[Swampy]

Three thoughts on how to resolve some of the differences of opinion.

1. The consensus here seems to be that Columbia did the right thing by bringing in outside experts to evaluate the football operation. The question then becomes did Columbia do the right thing? By what criteria? And if so, why doesn't Cornell do the same?

2. I don't even know if Athletics is also in charge of intramurals. But I can really see evaluating athletics at a university by the number of students who participate in organized athletics. Also, by how many unrecruited, ordinary students can enroll and play intercollegiate athletics, perhaps on club teams.

3. The benefits of Cornell's membership in the Ivy League go far beyond athletics. But athletics are the core of the League itself. If so, then the practice of giving nothing more than lip service to fielding teams far below par for the League in its core sports is a hypocritical disgrace.

[Ken711]

Three thoughts on how to resolve some of the differences of opinion.

1. The consensus here seems to be that Columbia did the right thing by bringing in outside experts to evaluate the football operation. The question then becomes did Columbia do the right thing? By what criteria? And if so, why doesn't Cornell do the same?

2. I don't even know if Athletics is also in charge of intramurals. But I can really see evaluating athletics at a university by the number of students who participate in organized athletics. Also, by how many unrecruited, ordinary students can enroll and play intercollegiate athletics, perhaps on club teams.

3. The benefits of Cornell's membership in the Ivy League go far beyond athletics. But athletics are the core of the League itself. If so, then the practice of giving nothing more than lip service to fielding teams far below par for the League in its core sports is a hypocritical disgrace.

Good points Swampy.