New indoor campus recreation & sports center

[upprdeck]

most of these buildings are fairly tall..  you could, in theory, add something later that was higher up, protected by netting and had some seating. then people could watch but be out of the way of the players and the balls

[Ken711]

most of these buildings are fairly tall..  you could, in theory, add something later that was higher up, protected by netting and had some seating. then people could watch but be out of the way of the players and the balls

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

most of these buildings are fairly tall..  you could, in theory, add something later that was higher up, protected by netting and had some seating. then people could watch but be out of the way of the players and the balls

I went to a hockey rink in Korea that was kinda like that.

[upprdeck]

thats why I kind wonder why someone hasnt built one of these things like this..  the addon can come later  if its designed to be put in later if there is a need..  And it seems like everyone who has one of these facilities ends up playing there for weather reasons and then fans become a hard thing to deal with..  you would almost think you could build the support wall with the idea of stands to be added later. leaved the side supports in place but have the wall be built in a way it could be opened up if its desired.

[billhoward]

An indoor stadium for game play needs to have a tall roof. The Dallas Cowboys stadium center screen hangs 90 feet above the field. I don't know what height is required to not affect 90% or 95% of long soccer kicks or long lacrosse clearing passes. In football, it's a do-ever in Dallas. But you could also have game-tracker cameras tell you where the ball would come down if it hadn't hid the scoreboard and in football (punt) it could be a dead ball at the point, receiving team takes over there. Not sure about soccer (a drop ball?), less about lacrosse (can't be a faceoff because that rewards the better FOGO). I'd say if a team's clearing percentage against the opponnent is 90%, the team gets the ball at midfield based on the referee's phone app that awards continued possession 90% (or whatever) fraction of the time.

Stands for fans don't need the high roof but they need to be able to see the entire field. If it's added later, the building should be designed so that wall doesn't need later reinforcement. I think room for 1,000 is adequate and, given the way sports are drawing fans to regular season lacrosse or soccer, even 500 might be okay. The seating could be 5' or 10' feet away from the field as long as there's netting protecting the fans in lacrosse.

[Swampy]

An indoor stadium for game play needs to have a tall roof. The Dallas Cowboys stadium center screen hangs 90 feet above the field. I don't know what height is required to not affect 90% or 95% of long soccer kicks or long lacrosse clearing passes. In football, it's a do-ever in Dallas. But you could also have game-tracker cameras tell you where the ball would come down if it hadn't hid the scoreboard and in football (punt) it could be a dead ball at the point, receiving team takes over there. Not sure about soccer (a drop ball?), less about lacrosse (can't be a faceoff because that rewards the better FOGO). I'd say if a team's clearing percentage against the opponnent is 90%, the team gets the ball at midfield based on the referee's phone app that awards continued possession 90% (or whatever) fraction of the time.

Stands for fans don't need the high roof but they need to be able to see the entire field. If it's added later, the building should be designed so that wall doesn't need later reinforcement. I think room for 1,000 is adequate and, given the way sports are drawing fans to regular season lacrosse or soccer, even 500 might be okay. The seating could be 5' or 10' feet away from the field as long as there's netting protecting the fans in lacrosse.

I think lacrosse balls hardly ever go higher than 20-30 ft. Lacrosse passes typically start out in someone's stick (for a 6' 5" long-stick, this might be 11-12 feet) and they fly more-or-less parallel to the ground. Teams sometimes practice fast breaks, in which the GK throws the ball to a breaking midfielder, which is closest to U.S. football's passing from a QB to a streaking wide receiver. But a lacrosse ball is much smaller and dense than a football, and a defensive player marking a breaking midfielder is allowed to check the midfielder's stick while the ball is in the air, which would be called pass interference in football. So, the kind of high, arching passes one sometimes sees in football are exceptionally rare in lacrosse.

In short, I wouldn't worry too much about roof height if the facility is only for lacrosse. Add soccer, and one has to raise the roof.

[Ken711]

Again, I don't see this new facility accommodating room for many spectators, beside some standing sideline space.  I'm just excited to see that it's finally progressing.  It's going to be a big recruiting enhancement for coaches.

[CU2007]

An indoor stadium for game play needs to have a tall roof. The Dallas Cowboys stadium center screen hangs 90 feet above the field. I don't know what height is required to not affect 90% or 95% of long soccer kicks or long lacrosse clearing passes. In football, it's a do-ever in Dallas. But you could also have game-tracker cameras tell you where the ball would come down if it hadn't hid the scoreboard and in football (punt) it could be a dead ball at the point, receiving team takes over there. Not sure about soccer (a drop ball?), less about lacrosse (can't be a faceoff because that rewards the better FOGO). I'd say if a team's clearing percentage against the opponnent is 90%, the team gets the ball at midfield based on the referee's phone app that awards continued possession 90% (or whatever) fraction of the time.

Stands for fans don't need the high roof but they need to be able to see the entire field. If it's added later, the building should be designed so that wall doesn't need later reinforcement. I think room for 1,000 is adequate and, given the way sports are drawing fans to regular season lacrosse or soccer, even 500 might be okay. The seating could be 5' or 10' feet away from the field as long as there's netting protecting the fans in lacrosse.

Based on our punter this past season, we'll be safe with 12 foot ceilings.

[billhoward]

An indoor stadium for game play needs to have a tall roof. The Dallas Cowboys stadium center screen hangs 90 feet above the field. I don't know what height is required to not affect 90% or 95% of long soccer kicks or long lacrosse clearing passes. In football, it's a do-ever in Dallas. But you could also have game-tracker cameras tell you where the ball would come down if it hadn't hid the scoreboard and in football (punt) it could be a dead ball at the point, receiving team takes over there. Not sure about soccer (a drop ball?), less about lacrosse (can't be a faceoff because that rewards the better FOGO). I'd say if a team's clearing percentage against the opponnent is 90%, the team gets the ball at midfield based on the referee's phone app that awards continued possession 90% (or whatever) fraction of the time.

Stands for fans don't need the high roof but they need to be able to see the entire field. If it's added later, the building should be designed so that wall doesn't need later reinforcement. I think room for 1,000 is adequate and, given the way sports are drawing fans to regular season lacrosse or soccer, even 500 might be okay. The seating could be 5' or 10' feet away from the field as long as there's netting protecting the fans in lacrosse.

I think lacrosse balls hardly ever go higher than 20-30 ft. Lacrosse passes typically start out in someone's stick (for a 6' 5" long-stick, this might be 11-12 feet) and they fly more-or-less parallel to the ground. Teams sometimes practice fast breaks, in which the GK throws the ball to a breaking midfielder, which is closest to U.S. football's passing from a QB to a streaking wide receiver. But a lacrosse ball is much smaller and dense than a football, and a defensive player marking a breaking midfielder is allowed to check the midfielder's stick while the ball is in the air, which would be called pass interference in football. So, the kind of high, arching passes one sometimes sees in football are exceptionally rare in lacrosse.

In short, I wouldn't worry too much about roof height if the facility is only for lacrosse. Add soccer, and one has to raise the roof.

a) this is just one person's musings, I don't believe Cornell is playing the long game here (i.e. what is best for Cornell over the next 25-30 years) as much as I'd like to in my Fantasy Ivy world see Cornell have the best indoor field for the Ivies and for the the Northeast. That would be one way to overcome the lack of scholarships.

b) you would have to worry about soccer because they want to practice and perhaps play in really crappy weather.

c) A pass wouldn't be thrown 50 feet in the air but a punt might be kicked that high.

Cornell also needs a really classy outdoor field for lax, soccer, etcetera as Princeton has. Ours at the far end of Upper Alumni Field is an example of minimizing cost: bleacher seats starting low to the ground and not rising very high up, and no plantings such as Princeton has that makes the stadium seem a world unto itself. I worry that what's likely to rise out by Pine Tree Road will be cost-constrained. I.e. "cheap."

Legend has it the campus store construction ran into bedrock -- imaginine that --  closer to the slope of the earth between Day Hall and the Straight. The whole idea of the design was you wouldn't even know the building was there. Rather than dig / jackhammer / dynamite the rock, it was just built enough higher that the sightline up from the Straight all but hides Day Hall. If true, it's another example of not thinking of the effect on campus over the, say, 100-year life of the Cornell store. It being already 50 years old.

[billhoward]

Again, I don't see this new facility accommodating room for many spectators, beside some standing sideline space.  I'm just excited to see that it's finally progressing.  It's going to be a big recruiting enhancement for coaches.

"Big enhancement" isn't big enough. We want a freaking spectacular recruiting enhancement, something that gets New England's best soccer or lacrosse player from Deerfield-Hotchkiss-whatever to blow off HYP.

I think Game Farm Road needs an enhanced name. You don't want recruits thinking they'll have to chase cattle, wild turkeys and buzzards off the outdoor fields before the game.

[George64]

Legend has it the campus store construction ran into bedrock -- imaginine that --  closer to the slope of the earth between Day Hall and the Straight. The whole idea of the design was you wouldn't even know the building was there. Rather than dig / jackhammer / dynamite the rock, it was just built enough higher that the sightline up from the Straight all but hides Day Hall. If true, it's another example of not thinking of the effect on campus over the, say, 100-year life of the Cornell store. It being already 50 years old.

It's not legend — I was around when it was built.  I was puzzled at the time, how could Cornell, with all its civil engineering and geology faculty, not have anticipated bedrock?  Before then, the Campus Store was in Barnes Hall, but I wondered why not just build something in College Town?
.

[Ken711]

Again, I don't see this new facility accommodating room for many spectators, beside some standing sideline space.  I'm just excited to see that it's finally progressing.  It's going to be a big recruiting enhancement for coaches.

"Big enhancement" isn't big enough. We want a freaking spectacular recruiting enhancement, something that gets New England's best soccer or lacrosse player from Deerfield-Hotchkiss-whatever to blow off HYP.

I think Game Farm Road needs an enhanced name. You don't want recruits thinking they'll have to chase cattle, wild turkeys and buzzards off the outdoor fields before the game.

OK Bill, you'll need to lower your expectations. While I agree it would be nice to have a larger indoor facility that could host games besides just for practices, it will still be a recruiting tool that the coaches currently don't have.

[CU2007]

Again, I don't see this new facility accommodating room for many spectators, beside some standing sideline space.  I'm just excited to see that it's finally progressing.  It's going to be a big recruiting enhancement for coaches.

"Big enhancement" isn't big enough. We want a freaking spectacular recruiting enhancement, something that gets New England's best soccer or lacrosse player from Deerfield-Hotchkiss-whatever to blow off HYP.

I think Game Farm Road needs an enhanced name. You don't want recruits thinking they'll have to chase cattle, wild turkeys and buzzards off the outdoor fields before the game.

I agree with this. National Championship Boulevard it is.

[David Harding]

Legend has it the campus store construction ran into bedrock -- imaginine that --  closer to the slope of the earth between Day Hall and the Straight. The whole idea of the design was you wouldn't even know the building was there. Rather than dig / jackhammer / dynamite the rock, it was just built enough higher that the sightline up from the Straight all but hides Day Hall. If true, it's another example of not thinking of the effect on campus over the, say, 100-year life of the Cornell store. It being already 50 years old.

It's not legend — I was around when it was built.  I was puzzled at the time, how could Cornell, with all its civil engineering and geology faculty, not have anticipated bedrock?  Before then, the Campus Store was in Barnes Hall, but I wondered why not just build something in College Town?
.

Here's a contemporary account from the Sun.  
https://cdsun.library.cornell.edu/?a=d&d=CDS19690912.2.4&srpos=3&e=-------en-20--1--txt-txIN-campus+store+construction------
https://cdsun.library.cornell.edu/?a=d&d=CDS19700206&e=-------en-20--1--txt-txIN-campus+store+construction------

[dag14]

The Sun provides a reasonable explanation.  It wasn't that the architect/engineers/geology faculty didn't know the bedrock was there, rather NY State wasn't making enough money available to pay the cost of excavating the extra 3 feet.  NYS Dormitory Funds are responsible for a huge number of new/newer Cornell buildings and the grants invariably come with conditions so Cornell may not have had the flexibility to divert funds to build the structure as originally designed.  For example, when Warren Hall was renovated around the time the Dyson School was created, faculty offices had to be a certain size which apparently was standard across SUNY schools.  Full professors got more square feet than associate professors, assistant professors even less and lecturers were lucky if they didn't have to share space.  It didn't matter if your job responsibilities might require more space or privacy to counsel students or that a professor on the brink of retirement might not actually ever use his office.  Dyson administration pushed very hard for adjustments and changes but got nowhere.  Of course, now that the reno is several years old, there has been a lot of space-shifting since the SUNY office police do not patrol in perpetuity.