Cornell - Northeastern

[Anne 85]

Each qualifying team has demonstrated it is dangerous either by solid play all year long or getting hot at AQ time.  AIC (Springfield, MA) beat #1 St. Cloud in Fargo with no home advantage.

However, it is not fair for 1 seeds to travel long distances and play in the 4 seed's city or building.  I understand why the NC$$ does it but it harms the competitive neutrality of the sport and that has to always be the sine qua non of sports.  We would not tolerate them saying "we have to let colleges pay to provide 'host referees' in the real world" and host venues amount to the same thing.

(This is Trotsky, not Anne. Anne would have dropped the f bomb.)

[Dafatone]

Each qualifying team has demonstrated it is dangerous either by solid play all year long or getting hot at AQ time.  AIC (Springfield, MA) beat #1 St. Cloud in Fargo with no home advantage.

However, it is not fair for 1 seeds to travel long distances and play in the 4 seed's city or building.  I understand why the NC$$ does it but it harms the competitive neutrality of the sport and that has to always be the sine qua non of sports.  We would not tolerate them saying "we have to let colleges pay to provide 'host referees' in the real world" and host venues amount to the same thing.

(This is Trotsky, not Anne. Anne would have dropped the f bomb.)

One thing they need to do is move the regionals a little more west, especially the Midwest.

The locations do change, and there are more teams in the Northeast. But every year it seems that at least two of the top four teams are from the NCHC, WCHA, or the Big10. Allentown might not be so bad for Penn State, but for most of the teams from those conferences, it's a trip.

When two top seeds are from Minnesota almost every year and one of them has to go pretty far East, troubles arise.

Plus the hosting thing. I know money and attendance > fairness, but a #4 seed shouldn't get a home crowd.

[Anne 85]

Kill the regionals with fire.  Move the first two rounds to campus sites.

[Jim Hyla]

still no chance Prov wins today if they didnt have home ice.

I don't buy that. You don't think that game could have gone the same way if it were played in Manchester or Worcester? AIC beat St. Cloud on Minnesota's porch. These games are intense and can turn on any bounce. The "home ice" effect is minimized once you get this far, I think.

I disagree. Once Providence got their second goal the crowd came alive and you could feel the electricity. I can't believe that the team didn't feel that and feed off of it.

Do I think that is the reason they won? Only partially, but it certainly couldn't hurt.

This has nothing to do with my argument, Jim. I was only disputing the statement that "no chance Providence wins" if they aren't playing in Providence. That's insulting to the skill and talent of Providence. They could have won that game in Manchester, Allentown, or Fargo.  I'm never going to dispute that a rocking, boisterous arena can provide some sort of advantage to a team.  OF COURSE having a large partisan crowd can help with energy and intangibles, but to say it's not possible for them to win without it is wrong, IMO.

Heck, I'd say that when a team is down 3-0 and they score, even the non-partisans will respond with some noise, energy, and excitement (oh, and your very measurable and tangible quantity of "electricity"), because neutral fans WANT to see a good, entertaining, close game. Nobody wants to go to a game where a team gets blown away, save for one team's fans.

If they had played this game in Manchester, guess who would STILL have a large majority of fan support in the building?  Still Providence. Is that still unfair?

We played a school whose campus is 50 miles from the regional site. Is that also unfair?

I hope you don't get hurt from all that "electricity" tonight. Make sure you bring a grounding wire, I hear Providence lead Hockey East in current this season.

I agree that "no chance" is incorrect. However I'm still not sure what you mean by  'The home ice effect is minimized once you get this far, I think.'
 
Of course I think Providence would have had more fans in Manchester than Minny State, but I'm confident that it would have been many fewer than what they had yesterday.

My point is that it's not fair to give a #4 seed the home ice advantage. That's all.

From a hockey point of view, I think the playoffs should all be on "neutral ice". But I understand from a business point of view, why they put a host team at home. All Providence needed to do to be sure that they would be at the Dunk, was to put up the money and time to host.

As to your comment that you 'hope (I) don't get hurt from all that "electricity" tonight.', well I don't see what that has to do with your argument. If you meant it to be snarky, so be it.

[Robb]

For the umpteenth time, Providence was not the host.

[marty]

For the umpteenth time, Providence was not the host.

And that is the point.  Twice they have been given the host perk even though they refuse to host.

[Anne 85]

For the umpteenth time, Providence was not the host.

You know what we're saying.

[upprdeck]

Cornell wont go thru the effort of hosting, dont know why they dont try, or co host with RIT or Canisius or something in Roch. even the on Syracuse center sets 6k and would probably work .

It would be interesting to see what the real cost of hosting is, or what attendance makes it a break even.  if the 150K and 80% of revenue numbers are true, you would think the 5-7K of tickets sold have to close to break even.

It might make for a good Sun article someday with a little investigation.

[marty]

Cornell wont go thru the effort of hosting, dont know why they dont try, or co host with RIT or Canisius or something in Roch. even the on Syracuse center sets 6k and would probably work .

Can a team co-bost?

[upprdeck]

from last years notes:

Fairfield University and Yale University will co-host the 2018 Division I Men's Ice Hockey Regional at Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport. The two schools also brought the regional to the state of Connecticut in 2009, 2011, 2012, and 2014

no idea if 2 schools that both could qualify could do it..  but Syracuse/Cornell could do one or Cornell/UB/Buf St?

[jkahn]

Trying to understand the "logic" behind how the powers that be assign block seating.

As a Cornell fan, I usually try to sit — maybe optimistically — by the blueline of the end we'll be attacking for two of the three periods. But yesterday, at the Dunk, Cornell block seating (including the band) was at the end Cornell was defending for 2/3 of the game.

What explains this? Is there some hockey logic to it? Is it some quaint Rhode Island custom, like coffee milk and bubblas? Cluelessness?

Can we get Cornell Athletics to inform our hosts that our team intends to spend most of the game in its offensive zone, and our fans want to sit there so as to cheer their team on and not be bored?

Inquiring minds (with too much time on their hands) want to know.

What was strange was lower-seeded Providence shooting twice at the end where higher-seeded Northeastern shot.  Benches were reversed in terms of seeding, too.  Cornell had the Mankato bench.  Entrances to the ice from locker rooms also reversed.

Maybe Providence was given the locker room used by Friar basketball that plays st the Dunk.

Home team gets the choice of which bench it wants.  I expect we'll be in the same one today as we were yesterday, as we normally take the left bench (from the prospective of the players facing the ice).

[Jim Hyla]

Trying to understand the "logic" behind how the powers that be assign block seating.

As a Cornell fan, I usually try to sit — maybe optimistically — by the blueline of the end we'll be attacking for two of the three periods. But yesterday, at the Dunk, Cornell block seating (including the band) was at the end Cornell was defending for 2/3 of the game.

What explains this? Is there some hockey logic to it? Is it some quaint Rhode Island custom, like coffee milk and bubblas? Cluelessness?

Can we get Cornell Athletics to inform our hosts that our team intends to spend most of the game in its offensive zone, and our fans want to sit there so as to cheer their team on and not be bored?

Inquiring minds (with too much time on their hands) want to know.

What was strange was lower-seeded Providence shooting twice at the end where higher-seeded Northeastern shot.  Benches were reversed in terms of seeding, too.  Cornell had the Mankato bench.  Entrances to the ice from locker rooms also reversed.

Maybe Providence was given the locker room used by Friar basketball that plays st the Dunk.

Home team gets the choice of which bench it wants.  I expect we'll be in the same one today as we were yesterday, as we normally take the left bench (from the prospective of the players facing the ice).

Yes, but I just wish our band could be on our (fans) side.

[CU77]

For the umpteenth time, Providence was not the host.

And that is the point.  Twice they have been given the host perk even though they refuse to host.

Of course they have. Attendance! No way is a team going to be sent to a far-away site in order to reduce attendance of their fans.

That said, dumping the regionals in favor of the higher seed hosting at home for the first two rounds works for me.

[Scersk '97]

Even the on Syracuse center sets 6k and would probably work.

The NCAA S(H)IT—I like it!

[RichH]

I agree that "no chance" is incorrect. However I'm still not sure what you mean by  'The home ice effect is minimized once you get this far, I think.'

Multiple things:

1) Teams in this tournament are good. Good enough to be able to overcome having a large number of opposing fans in the building. Good enough to focus on playing and not being scared of what Maw n Paw Pawtucket might do. I know we all think we're the bees buzzing that can control the game, but truly good teams can indeed play through that.

2) These are bigger & more muted atmospheres than the smaller, frantic barns teams play in all year.  Yeah, there will be energy ebb/flows, but that crowd energy is mostly a reaction to what has happened on the ice, especially in more sterile environments such as these regional caverns.

3) Everyone says "Providence is playing a home game," but they aren't playing in Schneider Arena. They don't have much of what comes with "home ice advantage." Things like intimately knowing the seams, corners, and board liveliness. How the ice plays. Being in the same locker room you permanently have a spot in.

For these reasons, I believe a home-ice advantage is minimized. Not eliminated, but minimized.

 

My point is that it's not fair to give a #4 seed the home ice advantage. That's all.

Fine. Placement and seeding are rarely completely fair, especially since we have no control of the $$$ interest. I guess I've internalized this after all these years. At least there wasn't a big screw-job when it comes to flipping seeds than most other years.

As to your comment that you 'hope (I) don't get hurt from all that "electricity" tonight.', well I don't see what that has to do with your argument. If you meant it to be snarky, so be it.

Yeah, it was snarky, but not personal. I'm like that whenever I read about people putting too much into things like "intangibles," "clubhouse chemistry," "desire," "not giving up," "Jebus was on our side," etc.