Indoor Practice Facility

[Ken711]

the big issue is that once they start creating space for people to watch the exit costs for those people adds costs.   just adding space for a few rows of people means the building has to be 10-20 ft wider

I agree.  I don't see seating for fans as very likely at all.  In all the facilities I've seen, there's maybe some standing space along the sidelines, but very little. The primary purpose for most of these facilities is for practice only.

[upprdeck]

Things can change on the timing.  Just going by what I have been told.  Count the construction projects on campus right now.

[Swampy]

the big issue is that once they start creating space for people to watch the exit costs for those people adds costs.   just adding space for a few rows of people means the building has to be 10-20 ft wider

I agree.  I don't see seating for fans as very likely at all.  In all the facilities I've seen, there's maybe some standing space along the sidelines, but very little. The primary purpose for most of these facilities is for practice only.

Seriously, I think this depends on how the new facility fits into a larger plan. If all it is is for practice, then of course practice-only makes the most sense. But if there's a plan to consolidate sports under a modern multi-use indoor facility, something more like the Carrier Dome might make more sense.

A big question is where are they going to put it? And given concerns like traffic, geographic access, etc., might it make the most sense to think of something like replacing venerable Barton Hall?

[Cop at Lynah]

As an inhabitant on the ground floor of Barton for 32 years , I'd be all for the replacement of Barton Hall.  But Barton Hall isn't going anywhere in my lifetime.  

I'd venture to guess that Alumni Fields is probably the likeliest location for convenience (central location & utilities are already in place), but that would require that the University's green space language would need to be amended, and I would suspect that would be quite a fight.

[billhoward]

As an inhabitant on the ground floor of Barton for 32 years , I'd be all for the replacement of Barton Hall.  But Barton Hall isn't going anywhere in my lifetime.  

I'd venture to guess that Alumni Fields is probably the likeliest location for convenience (central location & utilities are already in place), but that would require that the University's green space language would need to be amended, and I would suspect that would be quite a fight.

Be funny - sad funny, ironic funny - if after the academics steal away all the greenspace of lower and upper alumni fields, the athletics department can't put a facility there. I'm still pissed lower alumni field went away. I like the idea of athletic facilities being on campus, not out with the polo barn and, okay, the tennis facility.

[upprdeck]

There are not a lot of locations to choose from, but the one they chose is interesting.. It could change i suppose if some donor steps up.

[billhoward]

If you're going to go, might as well go big. How about a fabulous indoor facility with retractable roof and massive retractable windows?

Do the building right the first time, which doesn't require a Taj Mahjal. There won't be a second chance for decades. 3-4 rows of bleachers that fold back against the wall probably like in your high school gym. Or an adjoining raised box stretching between the 30 yard lines with viewing windows cut in, high-up on the wall, so the main roof doesn't have to be expanded. There could be a ground level for officials dressing room, replay room (you know that's going to be a thing), restrooms, trainer/medical space, maybe a changing area. You could do the same thing at one of the end zones.

Maybe the NCAA codifies rules for lax, soccer that allow play-on if the ball hits the roof and deflects downward in the direction of travel but not backwards and not if it goes directly into the goal. After you've seen American Gladiators, no rule seems bizarre.

Five hundred spectator seats would be adequate for most of last year's February and March men's lacrosse games. All of the games were played in not-bitter cold that would have further depressed attendance. Even versus Penn, the marquee matchup of 2019, barely drew 600. The traditional season finale vs. Princeton only drew 792.

Early 2019 MLax games at Schoellkopf, attendance:

Code Select Expand


342  2/24  Bucknell (weather mid-40s)
351  3/19  St Bonaventure 3/19 (weather low-40s)
614  3/23  Penn 3/23 (weather, mid-40s)
510  3/30  Dartmouth 3/30 (weather mid-60s)

The modest attendance for Cornell field sports also speaks to the need for a jewel of an outdoor lacrosse-soccer field like Princeton's Class of 1952 field, the one with stands / pressbox on one side for 3,000, low bleachers on the other for another thousand, all ringed by tall evergreens. The current Cornell soccer field feels blah. At Schoellopf, it feels as if you're rattling around a stadium too big for everything except commencement and the Homecoming fireworks. But first, the indoor facility.

[billhoward]

There are not a lot of locations to choose from, but the one they chose is interesting.. It could change i suppose if some donor steps up.

There are two grass fields remaining on Alumni Field. Cornell could build atop the Crescent lot. Or atop Campus Road and depress the roadway for 300 feet.

If Schoellkopf were ever replaced, it could be moved east or west by ~20 yards. Short term if the playing surface was bumped right up against the edge of the Crescent (rip up the unused track), the fans would sit closer to the action, and there'd be room for a smaller west stands with, perhaps, an awning to keep 1,000 hardy fans dry in not warm. I can't imagine anything happening to the Crescent itself for decades; just keep patching it up. And if it got replaced by a 15,000 seat stadium, where would you do commencement?

BU put an Astroturf field over a new parking garage next to Nickerson Field. Astroturf is the preferred surface for field hockey but for other sports it's harder and more abrasive when you fall. Deck and field, press box, ~1,000 seats, and lights were about $25M.

I worry Cornell will say things such as, "Academic buildings have to come first." Maybe so. But Homecoming isn't held to celebrate Klarman Hall.

[upprdeck]

All the parking issues on campus they could have done the same thing when they did the fball field.. Go down 5-10 ft and raise the field a small but and boom hundreds of parking spaces..

With the millions spent to fix the crescent thats gonna stay around for awhile.

[dag14]

It has been a while since I sat in on athletics advisory council meetings and similar events but I recall that the long-term master plan for campus has new athletics facilities moving away from central campus.  This is controversial but the expansion of academic buildings makes it harder to accommodate both kinds of activities there.  That is one reason why Gates Hall looms over Hoy Field -- Hoy Field is likely to be relocated one of these days and replaced with non-athletic buildings.  So an indoor "practice" facility most likely will not be anywhere close to Barton.

[Ken711]

It has been a while since I sat in on athletics advisory council meetings and similar events but I recall that the long-term master plan for campus has new athletics facilities moving away from central campus.  This is controversial but the expansion of academic buildings makes it harder to accommodate both kinds of activities there.  That is one reason why Gates Hall looms over Hoy Field -- Hoy Field is likely to be relocated one of these days and replaced with non-athletic buildings.  So an indoor "practice" facility most likely will not be anywhere close to Barton.

Perhaps you are referring to the Game Farm Road complex.

https://fcs.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/imce/site_contributor/Dept_University_Architect_and_Campus_Planning/documents/Campus_Planning/Game%20Farm%20Road%20Athletic%20Complex%20Facilities%20Master%20Plan.pdf

[marty]

It has been a while since I sat in on athletics advisory council meetings and similar events but I recall that the long-term master plan for campus has new athletics facilities moving away from central campus.  This is controversial but the expansion of academic buildings makes it harder to accommodate both kinds of activities there.  That is one reason why Gates Hall looms over Hoy Field -- Hoy Field is likely to be relocated one of these days and replaced with non-athletic buildings.  So an indoor "practice" facility most likely will not be anywhere close to Barton.

Perhaps you are referring to the Game Farm Road complex.

https://fcs.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/imce/site_contributor/Dept_University_Architect_and_Campus_Planning/documents/Campus_Planning/Game%20Farm%20Road%20Athletic%20Complex%20Facilities%20Master%20Plan.pdf

Thanks!  
Too bad there isn't a quick tennis emoji (which is what I want).  I'm the guy on the right getting the dope slap.  ::twak::

[dag14]

The campus master plan pre-dates the link you reference by at least 15 years but this shows that it has been conceded that Athletics is being displaced

[TimV]

It would be fabulous if the indoor facility could hold fans. I said 1,000 but really even 500 would be okay. Not many soccer (M or W), field hockey, even the early-season MLax games draw more than a couple hundred. Just OK is not OK.

Well, suppose the U.S. men's soccer team wins the WC in, say, 2030, and the women's team wins it in 2023, 2027, and 2031. Now all this success makes soccer the national pastime, with kids clamoring to play it everywhere. Suppose also, that Cornell men's and women's soccer become signature sports, achieving hockey-like success and popularity. E.g., both teams are ranked #1 much of the year and win the NC. Make similar assumptions about lacrosse. Might not all this popularity and success increase crowd size beyond 500?

About the same odds as a nuclear strike destroying the indoor practice facility.

Good one, Al.:-D

[Swampy]

It would be fabulous if the indoor facility could hold fans. I said 1,000 but really even 500 would be okay. Not many soccer (M or W), field hockey, even the early-season MLax games draw more than a couple hundred. Just OK is not OK.

Well, suppose the U.S. men's soccer team wins the WC in, say, 2030, and the women's team wins it in 2023, 2027, and 2031. Now all this success makes soccer the national pastime, with kids clamoring to play it everywhere. Suppose also, that Cornell men's and women's soccer become signature sports, achieving hockey-like success and popularity. E.g., both teams are ranked #1 much of the year and win the NC. Make similar assumptions about lacrosse. Might not all this popularity and success increase crowd size beyond 500?

About the same odds as a nuclear strike destroying the indoor practice facility.

Good one, Al.:-D

Is there still a nuclear reactor on campus?