Indoor Practice Facility

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

I heard Cornell has received approval to begin design work on a permanent indoor practice facility, with approximately 50% of the project cost already raised through gifts and fundraising.  No other details on site location.

Woo boo! ::banana::

No offense to Ken711, but I'll wait for an official announcement before my banana starts dancing.

A Harvey Weinstein joke lurks.

No it doesn't.::twak::

[upprdeck]

I think you may have awhile for any real announcement shows up. Design work could mean yrs before any real work gets started..  They do generally go up quick though.

[billhoward]

I think you may have awhile for any real announcement shows up. Design work could mean yrs before any real work gets started..  They do generally go up quick though.

A dome over fieldturf, quick. If it's got a physical (hard) wall and roof, a bit longer.

[billhoward]

Questions one might ask about the rumored-to-be-real indoor practice field:
* Full size field that is 130 yards long (football plus end zones plus 5 yards)? Wide enough for lacrosse (60 yards) or soccer (supposed to be 70-80 per FIFA)? (Football is 53-1/3 yards wide)
* High enough to allow an actual game for November soccer and February lacrosse and ball doesn't hit the roof?
* Room for 1,000 spectators?
All of which make it more expensive
* Any access for students who aren't athletes? Not even, like, from midnight to 6 am?

You've got to find a place for it. Princeton has its on the football field. A $3.5M inflatable device that goes up after the last football game. $100,000-plus to put it up / take it down each year.

Princeton's "air structure": https://www.princeton.edu/news/2017/04/05/princeton-announces-plan-have-bubble-over-powers-field-each-winter

The space under the bubble can be subdivided so that more than one team can use it at the same time. It will also be used by campus recreation programs, intramural and club teams, outside groups and youth teams. Beyond that, Princeton's strength and conditioning program can use the space, which will help nearly all 37 of Princeton's teams

[Ken711]

Questions one might ask about the rumored-to-be-real indoor practice field:
* Full size field that is 130 yards long (football plus end zones plus 5 yards)? Wide enough for lacrosse (60 yards) or soccer (supposed to be 70-80 per FIFA)? (Football is 53-1/3 yards wide)
* High enough to allow an actual game for November soccer and February lacrosse and ball doesn't hit the roof?
* Room for 1,000 spectators?
All of which make it more expensive
* Any access for students who aren't athletes? Not even, like, from midnight to 6 am?

You've got to find a place for it. Princeton has its on the football field. A $3.5M inflatable device that goes up after the last football game. $100,000-plus to put it up / take it down each year.

Princeton's "air structure": https://www.princeton.edu/news/2017/04/05/princeton-announces-plan-have-bubble-over-powers-field-each-winter

The space under the bubble can be subdivided so that more than one team can use it at the same time. It will also be used by campus recreation programs, intramural and club teams, outside groups and youth teams. Beyond that, Princeton's strength and conditioning program can use the space, which will help nearly all 37 of Princeton's teams

It is being designed as a permanent structure, not an inflatable dome that goes up and down seasonally.  I doubt it would be so large as to hold 1,000 spectators for actual game use, even the permanent practice facilities at Big Ten schools aren't that large for such intended use.

[upprdeck]

If its fast tracked something could happen in 2021.  But the money raised really just gets them to the 3rd phase of the project.  Its unclear if they would move forward to the build from the design until all the funding is provided.  Even the design phase might need to go throw multiple iterations if it is actually that far in the planning which is really unclear.

Design without location is also an issue.   A Bubble vs something like SU built. How much bigger could they extent the current indoor facility or would that collide with the Wrestling upgrade?

But I wouldn't expect anything soon unless the campus policy has a huge change given the location that is currently being planned for the build.

[Swampy]

If its fast tracked something could happen in 2021.  But the money raised really just gets them to the 3rd phase of the project.  Its unclear if they would move forward to the build from the design until all the funding is provided.  Even the design phase might need to go throw multiple iterations if it is actually that far in the planning which is really unclear.

Design without location is also an issue.   A Bubble vs something like SU built. How much bigger could they extent the current indoor facility or would that collide with the Wrestling upgrade?

But I wouldn't expect anything soon unless the campus policy has a huge change given the location that is currently being planned for the build.

And wouldn't it have to be near existing facilities so there wouldn't need to be any duplication of things like locker rooms, rehab therapies, etc.?

[billhoward]

Cornell lax played indoors at Michigan ~ 5 years ago. There were some spectators, I believe behind sidelines netting.

[billhoward]

It is being designed as a permanent structure, not an inflatable dome that goes up and down seasonally.  I doubt it would be so large as to hold 1,000 spectators for actual game use, even the permanent practice facilities at Big Ten schools aren't that large for such intended use.

Permanent is better than seasonal so long as it doesn't have aluminum siding and roof.

The campus has buildings done on the cheap that worked well (Cornell's found-the-plans-at-Sears Lynah Rink has a prouder history than the Yale's Eero Saarinen-designed Ingalls Rink) and where not enough money was spent (the Campus Store was to have followed the curve of the hill but Cornell opted to not spend to clear out the underlying bedrock, so it's ~10 feet higher than it should be.

It would be fabulous if the indoor facility could hold fans. I said 1,000 but really even 500 would be okay. Not many soccer (M or W), field hockey, even the early-season MLax games draw more than a couple hundred. Just OK is not OK.

As for funding, Cornell's rule for buildings now is that Cornell wants not just the construction money but also money to maintain the facility for some decades into the future. Because few people are willing to donate upkeep funds to a building with somebody else's name on it.

If I recall Army (now Army West Point) has a very nice indoor practice facility, big enough for full field football practice. It has brick or brick veneer on the outside. Looks very permanent, not an eyesore.

[mike1960]

It is being designed as a permanent structure, not an inflatable dome that goes up and down seasonally.  I doubt it would be so large as to hold 1,000 spectators for actual game use, even the permanent practice facilities at Big Ten schools aren't that large for such intended use.

Permanent is better than seasonal so long as it doesn't have aluminum siding and roof.

The campus has buildings done on the cheap that worked well (Cornell's found-the-plans-at-Sears Lynah Rink has a prouder history than the Yale's Eero Saarinen-designed Ingalls Rink) and where not enough money was spent (the Campus Store was to have followed the curve of the hill but Cornell opted to not spend to clear out the underlying bedrock, so it's ~10 feet higher than it should be.

It would be fabulous if the indoor facility could hold fans. I said 1,000 but really even 500 would be okay. Not many soccer (M or W), field hockey, even the early-season MLax games draw more than a couple hundred. Just OK is not OK.

As for funding, Cornell's rule for buildings now is that Cornell wants not just the construction money but also money to maintain the facility for some decades into the future. Because few people are willing to donate upkeep funds to a building with somebody else's name on it.

If I recall Army (now Army West Point) has a very nice indoor practice facility, big enough for full field football practice. It has brick or brick veneer on the outside. Looks very permanent, not an eyesore.

If you're going to go, might as well go big.

How about a fabulous indoor facility with retractable roof and massive retractable windows?

[upprdeck]

just dont expect anything in less than 2-3 yrs unless some major change happens or a lot more money shows up

[Swampy]

It would be fabulous if the indoor facility could hold fans. I said 1,000 but really even 500 would be okay. Not many soccer (M or W), field hockey, even the early-season MLax games draw more than a couple hundred. Just OK is not OK.

Well, suppose the U.S. men's soccer team wins the WC in, say, 2030, and the women's team wins it in 2023, 2027, and 2031. Now all this success makes soccer the national pastime, with kids clamoring to play it everywhere. Suppose also, that Cornell men's and women's soccer become signature sports, achieving hockey-like success and popularity. E.g., both teams are ranked #1 much of the year and win the NC. Make similar assumptions about lacrosse. Might not all this popularity and success increase crowd size beyond 500?

[Al DeFlorio]

It would be fabulous if the indoor facility could hold fans. I said 1,000 but really even 500 would be okay. Not many soccer (M or W), field hockey, even the early-season MLax games draw more than a couple hundred. Just OK is not OK.

Well, suppose the U.S. men's soccer team wins the WC in, say, 2030, and the women's team wins it in 2023, 2027, and 2031. Now all this success makes soccer the national pastime, with kids clamoring to play it everywhere. Suppose also, that Cornell men's and women's soccer become signature sports, achieving hockey-like success and popularity. E.g., both teams are ranked #1 much of the year and win the NC. Make similar assumptions about lacrosse. Might not all this popularity and success increase crowd size beyond 500?

About the same odds as a nuclear strike destroying the indoor practice facility.

[upprdeck]

the big issue is that once they start creating space for people to watch the exit costs for those people adds costs.   just adding space for a few rows of people means the building has to be 10-20 ft wider

[Ken711]

just dont expect anything in less than 2-3 yrs unless some major change happens or a lot more money shows up

I'm sure that's true on timing.  I'm just happy that it's finally in motion,  I can wait a few years.  The benefits for coaches on selling the recruits a new practice facility shouldn't be underestimated as well.