Men's basketball 2018-19

[Swampy]

A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.

Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...

Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.

Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang. Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.

[mountainred]

Penn 78, Villanova 75. This is going to be a long year for the Big Red.

We're not a bad team by general Ivy standards, but Penn, Yale, and Harvard (when healthy) are quite strong this year. The rest of the teams, including Cornell, will likely jostle for the 4th spot in the Ivy tournament.  I'm thinking another 6-8 league record is about where we'll finish. A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.

This isn't a bad Ivy team, more middle of the road, but it's a good year for the league.  Penn, Yale and Harvard are top 100 teams and there aren't any truly awful teams (Columbia looked pretty bad to start the season have looked better as of late). 6-8 in the league is possible, but will be tough.

Gettings would have helped, obviously, but he probably wouldn't have been enough to close the gap to H,Y, and Penn.

[upprdeck]

Donahue  would have had he not been married

[ugarte]

Donahue  would have had he not been married

I'm not sure what this is responding to but ... you think if he were single he wouldn't have taken the BC job? That's crazy talk.

[Al DeFlorio]

A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.

Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...

Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.

Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang. Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.

Yes, I know all that.  

But his record at Cornell wasn't much until Dale, Foote, and Wittman appeared serendipitously on campus together.  Whether he would have reverted to his mediocre recruiting form after those years we'll never know, but in my opinion it was likely.  I didn't mourn his departure then and don't blame him for giving it a shot, but wasn't at all surprised when he failed at BC.  

Penn basketball, I hope you realize, has a rather different history from Cornell's, and Penn is located in a city where basketball has been a big-time item for decades, and the Palestra is, well, the Palestra.  Cornell and Ithaca and Alberding/Newman, not so much.

[mountainred]

A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.

Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...

Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.

Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang. Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.

Yes, I know all that.  

But his record at Cornell wasn't much until Dale, Foote, and Wittman appeared serendipitously on campus together.  Whether he would have reverted to his mediocre recruiting form after those years we'll never know, but in my opinion it was likely.  I didn't mourn his departure then and don't blame him for giving it a shot, but wasn't at all surprised when he failed at BC.  

Penn basketball, I hope you realize, has a rather different history from Cornell's, and Penn is located in a city where basketball has been a big-time item for decades, and the Palestra is, well, the Palestra.  Cornell and Ithaca and Alberding/Newman, not so much.

{Emphasis added to the quote}

Al, you may be forgetting that after two awful years, Steve's teams consistently improved and finished 2nd and 3rd in the league before any of the class of 2010 set foot on campus (Cornell had finished 3rd only twice between 1988 and 2004); that he recruited three Ivy Rookies of the Year that weren't part of the 2010 class (Collins, Gore and 'ski) and 9 players, other than Wittman, Dale and Foote, who were named to all-Ivy teams (totaling 3 first-team selections, 6 second-team, and 4 honorable mention).  In the years since, Cornell has only recruited 4 all-Ivy players, and two bailed on the school before graduating. And while Penn certainly has significant basketball advantages over Cornell, the two prior Quaker coaches proved that you can't just show up and hope to win there.

The "Steve just got lucky" story was a favorite of Penn and Princeton fans because it allowed them to discount the Big Red titles as flukes -- Cornell wasn't a real champion like their teams were.  Of course, Penn fans don't raise that as much anymore.  No question there was luck involved in assembling the 2010 team, but it ignores how well Steve made the pieces work together.

Steve may not be a Ned Harkness of basketball, but he's a good coach.  He's, at worst, the second best Cornell coach of all-time after Sam MacNeil (unless you really want to lobby for the work Albert Sharpe did a century ago).  Who knows if Cornell would have won another Ivy title after 2010, maybe not, but the team would have been more relevant.

[Swampy]

A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.

Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...

Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.

Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang. Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.

Yes, I know all that.  

But his record at Cornell wasn't much until Dale, Foote, and Wittman appeared serendipitously on campus together.  Whether he would have reverted to his mediocre recruiting form after those years we'll never know, but in my opinion it was likely.  I didn't mourn his departure then and don't blame him for giving it a shot, but wasn't at all surprised when he failed at BC.  

Penn basketball, I hope you realize, has a rather different history from Cornell's, and Penn is located in a city where basketball has been a big-time item for decades, and the Palestra is, well, the Palestra.  Cornell and Ithaca and Alberding/Newman, not so much.

Yes, around 1970 I dated someone with family in Philly, and most of them had some association with Penn. At some function at one of her Philly relatives, an uncle said something like, "Cornell's basketball team isn't doing too well this year." And I responded, "Yeah, but the hockey team is doing great." Seeing the blank stares, I suddenly remembered I was in Philly, where they were fanatics for a different religion.

[Jim Hyla]

A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.

Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...

Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.

Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang. Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.

Yes, I know all that.  

But his record at Cornell wasn't much until Dale, Foote, and Wittman appeared serendipitously on campus together.  Whether he would have reverted to his mediocre recruiting form after those years we'll never know, but in my opinion it was likely.  I didn't mourn his departure then and don't blame him for giving it a shot, but wasn't at all surprised when he failed at BC.  

Penn basketball, I hope you realize, has a rather different history from Cornell's, and Penn is located in a city where basketball has been a big-time item for decades, and the Palestra is, well, the Palestra.  Cornell and Ithaca and Alberding/Newman, not so much.

Yes, around 1970 I dated someone with family in Philly, and most of them had some association with Penn. At some function at one of her Philly relatives, an uncle said something like, "Cornell's basketball team isn't doing too well this year." And I responded, "Yeah, but the hockey team is doing great." Seeing the blank stares, I suddenly remembered I was in Philly, where they were fanatics for a different religion.

It went so far that Penn dropped hockey as a sport.

[CAS]

Donahue is an excellent coach.  Look how Cornell has fared after his departure.  Bill Courtney went 60-113 during his 6 unsuccessful years.  Brian Earl is 24-41 so far.

[Swampy]

Donahue is an excellent coach.  Look how Cornell has fared after his departure.  Bill Courtney went 60-113 during his 6 unsuccessful years.  Brian Earl is 24-41 so far.

Absolutely. Even with the team he had, you don't get the likes of Dick Vitale saying, "Cornell put on a clinic against Wisconsin" without excellent coaching.

[Beeeej]

Donahue is an excellent coach.  Look how Cornell has fared after his departure.  Bill Courtney went 60-113 during his 6 unsuccessful years.  Brian Earl is 24-41 so far.

Absolutely. Even with the team he had, you don't get the likes of Dick Vitale saying, "Cornell put on a clinic against Wisconsin" without excellent coaching.

His coaching and his philosophy of how the team members should treat each other was also apparently a big factor behind Foote's decision to transfer from St. Bonaventure. Foote's mom was a nurse at the hospital where Khaliq Gant was being treated after his spinal cord injury, and she was reportedly blown away by how much time and effort Donahue and the players spent making sure Gant knew he was still part of the team. It was terrible what happened to Gant, but without that, Foote probably keeps riding the bench for the Bonnies.

[Chuck Henderson]

Steve may not be a Ned Harkness of basketball, but he's a good coach. He's, at worst, the second best Cornell coach of all-time after Sam MacNeil (unless you really want to lobby for the work Albert Sharpe did a century ago).

MacNeil by the record may look pretty good, but I and everyone I knew thought he was a bad coach in terms of game-time decisions.  If one has him as a contender, his predecessor, Royner Greene, needs to be as well, until he kind of lost it later in his tenure (separate the 46-47 through 53-54 seasons from then through 58-59).  We were all calling for his dismissal in those later years.  (I saw every home game he coached from the 48-49 season on.)  I would put Donahue first, but it's hard to compare eras, with recruiting, for example, being very different.

[upprdeck]

Donahue  would have had he not been married

I'm not sure what this is responding to but ... you think if he were single he wouldn't have taken the BC job? That's crazy talk.

yup

[ugarte]

Donahue  would have had he not been married

I'm not sure what this is responding to but ... you think if he were single he wouldn't have taken the BC job? That's crazy talk.

yup

I'm going to remain skeptical.

[mountainred]

Steve may not be a Ned Harkness of basketball, but he's a good coach. He's, at worst, the second best Cornell coach of all-time after Sam MacNeil (unless you really want to lobby for the work Albert Sharpe did a century ago).

MacNeil by the record may look pretty good, but I and everyone I knew thought he was a bad coach in terms of game-time decisions.  If one has him as a contender, his predecessor, Royner Greene, needs to be as well, until he kind of lost it later in his tenure (separate the 46-47 through 53-54 seasons from then through 58-59).  We were all calling for his dismissal in those later years.  (I saw every home game he coached from the 48-49 season on.)  I would put Donahue first, but it's hard to compare eras, with recruiting, for example, being very different.

Thanks for the insight Chuck.  Sam was before my time (Class of '88) so I just know the record (.637 overall, 8 top 4 Ivy finishes in 9 seasons, a couple of the most storied wins in school history).  He was doing something right, so I didn't want to dismiss him, but I have to defer to you on his game-time decision-making.
Royner Greene is interesting.  He had 2-3 really good seasons, a bunch of solid ones, but, like you said, really tailed off at the end.  Both Sam and Royner were dealing with a league where the best team could be ranked in the top 10 and SD certainly never had to worry about that.  And no question the game now is very different.  
All that said, Steve's record stacks up with anyone who has coached here and he's certainly the best of the last half century.