Cornell lacrosse 2018

[upprdeck]

Our offense is make multiple passes create lanes and shoot.. you get little of that in 30 sec penalties. we are leading the country in scoring so does it really matter if we dont score EMO.  Its more our EMO defense that we need to worry about at times.

[mike1960]

Our offense is make multiple passes create lanes and shoot.. you get little of that in 30 sec penalties. we are leading the country in scoring so does it really matter if we dont score EMO.  Its more our EMO defense that we need to worry about at times.

It might matter. We were 1-3 in EMO against Yale, and we lost 13-11. We're going to have some seriously close games in the next few weeks.

[billhoward]

Our offense is make multiple passes create lanes and shoot.. you get little of that in 30 sec penalties. we are leading the country in scoring so does it really matter if we dont score EMO.  Its more our EMO defense that we need to worry about at times.

It might matter. We were 1-3 in EMO against Yale, and we lost 13-11. We're going to have some seriously close games in the next few weeks.

Vicious glass-half-empty cycle: The more we score on EMO, the more chances we have to lose ensuing faceoffs.

[Swampy]

Our offense is make multiple passes create lanes and shoot.. you get little of that in 30 sec penalties. we are leading the country in scoring so does it really matter if we dont score EMO.  Its more our EMO defense that we need to worry about at times.

It might matter. We were 1-3 in EMO against Yale, and we lost 13-11. We're going to have some seriously close games in the next few weeks.

Vicious glass-half-empty cycle: The more we score on EMO, the more chances we have to lose ensuing faceoffs.

True, but if our EMO defense was a lock, we could deliberately foul when lose the face off and then win the man-down defense.

[mike1960]

Our offense is make multiple passes create lanes and shoot.. you get little of that in 30 sec penalties. we are leading the country in scoring so does it really matter if we dont score EMO.  Its more our EMO defense that we need to worry about at times.

It might matter. We were 1-3 in EMO against Yale, and we lost 13-11. We're going to have some seriously close games in the next few weeks.

Vicious glass-half-empty cycle: The more we score on EMO, the more chances we have to lose ensuing faceoffs.

In the Yale game, we won 17 of 28 faceoffs. As I said, it might matter, and get exponentially matterish in close games and overtime situations.

[mountainred]

Our offense is make multiple passes create lanes and shoot.. you get little of that in 30 sec penalties. we are leading the country in scoring so does it really matter if we dont score EMO.  Its more our EMO defense that we need to worry about at times.

It might matter. We were 1-3 in EMO against Yale, and we lost 13-11. We're going to have some seriously close games in the next few weeks.

Vicious glass-half-empty cycle: The more we score on EMO, the more chances we have to lose ensuing faceoffs.

In the Yale game, we won 17 of 28 faceoffs. As I said, it might matter, and get exponentially matterish in close games and overtime situations.

The folks at lacrosse reference say Cornell has the most efficient offense in the sport but that they take their time on offense.  I'll take that over forcing a shot to make the EMO look better.  I don't feel like going back through the p-b-p's but there are probably a bunch of EMO chances that came up "empty" but the Red kept possession and scored later in the possession at even strength.  The impact -- +1 good guys -- is the same.

And on the man down defense, it really isn't a season long issue.  11 of the 16 man down goals came in three games (Dartmouth, Harvard, Lehigh).  It's not like they are giving up 3 man down goals a game.

[billhoward]

You keep providing fact-based answers and then we'll have nothing to gripe about.

It is nice if we can beat Yale on faceoffs if it comes down to Yale-Cornell for the Ivy tournament title. I don't know if the worrying about whether we have high enough standing to make the NCAA tournament w/o the title is a real issue or not. So we just win, baby.

[billhoward]

[edit add] Princeton did an outstanding job shutting down Jeff Teat and without him, the Cornell offense just didn't click, although we did get good midfielder scoring. Final 14-8. The LSM on Teat, George Baughan #17, is only a freshman; last year Teat had 12 points which is what we needed from him this year, too. Michael Sowers, Princeton's stud attackman, was 1-2--3 and set a Princeton season scoring record, 83 points.

Cornell had a lot of back luck such as hitting pipes. Cornell fans around me thought we got shafted by the refs. Between pipes and the calls, I didn't seven goals worth of bad luck/calls. We did hold Princeton 0x4 on EMO while we were 2x5.

Absolutely fabulous day for the game, nice weather, but not as well attended as Cornell-at-Princeton games in the pat. The small stands across from the main stands had maybe 5 people. (Announced attendance: 1636).


Good reality check before the Ivy tournament. Hopefully we rebound in the semifinal and then play our best game of the year against (presumably) Yale for the autobid. The field is:

1. Yale
2. Cornell
3. Brown
4. Penn

Princeton went into the game knowing it needed to win to have a shot, but that evaporated when winless Dartmouth failed to beat Brown.

No, it wasn't IMO:

The game was closer than the final score indicated with the Tigers holding the slim edge in shots (38-33), ground balls (28-25) and face-offs (14-of-24).

--------------

Gonna rain like crazy Friday. But then Saturday in Princeton, 1 p.m. gametime, it's going to be partly sunny and high 60s. Showcasing two of the nation's best attackmen, Jeff Teat and Michael Sowers.

Princeton is one of three teams at 2-3 league along with Harvard and Brown. Princeton has the H2H over Harvard, Harvard (vs. Yale Saturday) has the H2H over Brown, and Brown (vs. winless Dartmouth) has the H2H over Princeton (14-13). Brown has the best chance of winning Saturday since Dartmouth is winless.

[upprdeck]

Win the next 2 and we are a lock i think.  Win the next 1 and I think we are still in without some crazy stuff.. perhaps Albany loses.  SU might lose out. ND might lose out and they are both out if that happens. you remove a few of the teams below us and even 2 losses we still might get in.

[KenP]

I know there are clear benefits to being home team in hockey, even at a neutral venue. Any built-in advantages for lax home teams?

[mike1960]

The folks at lacrosse reference say Cornell has the most efficient offense in the sport but that they take their time on offense.  I'll take that over forcing a shot to make the EMO look better.  I don't feel like going back through the p-b-p's but there are probably a bunch of EMO chances that came up "empty" but the Red kept possession and scored later in the possession at even strength.  The impact -- +1 good guys -- is the same.

And on the man down defense, it really isn't a season long issue.  11 of the 16 man down goals came in three games (Dartmouth, Harvard, Lehigh).  It's not like they are giving up 3 man down goals a game.

Cornell is 45th in the country in man down defense. Duke is 10th. Yale is 36th.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/lacrosse-men/d1/current/team/232

Lot of good stats on this site.

[mountainred]

Another interesting article by Lacrosse Reference on Cornell's offense.  The upshot is that the BR are good, not great, on possessions of 30 seconds or less; elite in the 30-60 second range; and best in the nation in possessions over a minute.  This offense isn't designed to score quickly but to maximize each possession.

And while I've seen first hand how a statistical argument can go off the rails at Elynah, here's my take on the man down defense.  Yeah, 45th isn't good, but even this late in the season we're talking about a pretty small sample size.  Remove just the Harvard game (5 goals surrendered on 7 man up situations) and Cornell is flirting with the the top 20 and man down D is a "strength."  The Harvard game counts, of course, but when a single bad game makes that much of a difference, the numbers are pretty wonky.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

Another interesting article by Lacrosse Reference on Cornell's offense.  The upshot is that the BR are good, not great, on possessions of 30 seconds or less; elite in the 30-60 second range; and best in the nation in possessions over a minute.  This offense isn't designed to score quickly but to maximize each possession.

And while I've seen first hand how a statistical argument can go off the rails at Elynah, here's my take on the man down defense.  Yeah, 45th isn't good, but even this late in the season we're talking about a pretty small sample size.  Remove just the Harvard game (5 goals surrendered on 7 man up situations) and Cornell is flirting with the the top 20 and man down D is a "strength."  The Harvard game counts, of course, but when a single bad game makes that much of a difference, the numbers are pretty wonky.

Facts, facts, facts!  Enough with these facts!

[upprdeck]

I think the big variable is just taking too many penalties.. But it can be argued as well that being aggressive is stopping goals and maybe stopping more chances that are allowed by being a man down.

also under .30 second possession stats can be hard to view.. is it from quick change scores, fast break scores, EMO scores, out of Timeout scores?

you know over 60 sec possessions are not from penalty possessions and they are the same for the most part for all teams.

its interesting to me that the team that has the best offense and maybe the toughest guy to defend and has not had more EMO chances.. look at albany at 57 chances.

[Swampy]

Another interesting article by Lacrosse Reference on Cornell's offense.  The upshot is that the BR are good, not great, on possessions of 30 seconds or less; elite in the 30-60 second range; and best in the nation in possessions over a minute.  This offense isn't designed to score quickly but to maximize each possession.

And while I've seen first hand how a statistical argument can go off the rails at Elynah, here's my take on the man down defense.  Yeah, 45th isn't good, but even this late in the season we're talking about a pretty small sample size.  Remove just the Harvard game (5 goals surrendered on 7 man up situations) and Cornell is flirting with the the top 20 and man down D is a "strength."  The Harvard game counts, of course, but when a single bad game makes that much of a difference, the numbers are pretty wonky.

This is a really interesting analysis, but it requires more thought. It emphasizes the standpoint of a defensive coordinator preparing to face quick-scoring vs slow-scoring teams. But here are a few thoughts I'd add to the mix.

• Whether a team tries to score quickly or not depends on the game situation. If an elite team plays several cupcakes, then it's likely to open up substantial leads, which will then lead to running time off the clock before attempting a shot and (because of the opponent's weakness) often scoring. In other words, there's a correlation between a team's schedule and the distribution of scoring efficiency by time of possession. It would therefore be helpful to break down these scoring efficiency ratings by "even strength," "close," "ahead," "behind," etc., as is done in advanced hockey metrics.
  
• A team that's able to score largely by taking over a minute to set up a high-percentage shot has a severe liability. It will be ineffective in most EMO situations, which are a minute or less, and it will be severely handicapped when it finds itself behind in a game against a comparable team.
• It follows that a good offensive coordinator needs to train for both approaches to offense. A championship team needs to train to score quickly, to take longer but set up high-percentage shots, and to run off clock without sacrificing good scoring chances.