Time for a New Arena thread

[upprdeck]

I have a been a season ticket holder for 30 years.. the better the team , the more demand for seats , the higher the ticket price goes.. I agree price has cut down on attendance. if you dont think the fact the seating sucks has an effect on people attending games then you are not in touch with the townies.  as to why the students are not showing up i have no idea. thats a different issue..

i showed the RIT link, its not much different is size and in fact because it wraps all the way around the seating ends up almost the same size in lynah with much much more room both between the seats in each direction.

I dont know if VIP areas would work here but the box seats added nothing but cost way more and are empty much of the time so that idea didnt work. i know mamy pro arenas let people rent the vip suites on a per game basis and the ones at RIT are way better seats than the box seats at cornell.

we have thread after thread about recruiting. lynah is not the reason kids come, its the atmosphere that is created in lynah. you dont think they want better everything?  new shiny toys sell kids.  put some thought and effort into a new lynah. create a student section that builds up the energy, create one that lets the band sound better,

again a new scoreboard means we get replays and the like. new sound system means we can hear Aurthur . a new bldg means the ice issues probably go away.  new bldg means we get a concourse that lets people go to the consessions and get back before a period starts.

maybe even we get a replay system that works.  

are we going to live in lynah forever?

[upprdeck]

OK. Let's say we have two pressing athletic needs:
[list=1]

• A new ice arena to replace Lynah
• A full-size indoor game & practice facilty for lacrosse & football (both kinds)

You're the Development Office. Which do you prioritize?

good question.. football can not be the reason we spend 15-20 million.. if we can spend that hockey drives the bus more than Lax.  if we only have 5-10 million than we have to get a bubble.. and its all part of the master plan once baseball moves off campus all bets are off.

[Trotsky]

are we going to live in Lynah forever?

Why not?  In all seriousness, the three most interesting rinks in the ECAC are, IINM, the three oldest: Lynah, Hobey, and Appleton.  This isn't an accident.  The modernity of rink facilities is convenient, but the style is insipid and the atmosphere is sterile.  The classic example is Walker to Cheel.  No thanks.

My understanding is we gutted the "underside" of Lynah and brought the lockerrooms and other facilities up to date.  Do that, but keep the rink itself historic and interesting.  Aesthetically, new buildings have all the charm of an office building.

[KeithK]

put some thought and effort into a new lynah. create a student section that builds up the energy, create one that lets the band sound better,

I don't care how much thought you put into it.  A new arena is not going to have better energy and sound an the old one.  Fire codes and spacious seating will spread people out and move them away from the ice, which will detract from the energy. his has happened in every new arena that I am aware of. See greg's example of Clarkson but there are others and in multiple sports.

Now maybe you think that's acceptable in order to gain the convienences that you'd like to see. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  Maybe thoughtful design could limit the impact.

When were the renovations?  They seem very recent to me but then the years run together, especially when I'm 3000 miles away.  It feels to me like that investment was too recent for the school to even consider building a brand new arena.  unless one of us gives a few tens of millions, of course.

[redice]

are we going to live in lynah forever?

If not forever, I'm hoping for the rest of my life...     For I don't believe my system could stand the heartbreak of a Cornell home rink other than Lynah....

[BearLover]

we have thread after thread about recruiting. lynah is not the reason kids come, its the atmosphere that is created in lynah. you dont think they want better everything?  new shiny toys sell kids.  put some thought and effort into a new lynah. create a student section that builds up the energy, create one that lets the band sound better,

Yeah, it's not Lynah itself; it's the atmosphere Lynah creates.  When Lynah trades benches for comfortable seats the students won't be standing the whole game anymore, there won't be as much noise packed into small spaces...I get your point about the townies, but players come to Lynah for the student section, and townies come to Lynah for the players.  As a recent student who loved standing and screaming the entire game, I know for certain things would have been completely different if the games took place in a modern rink with big seats and all those other amenities.  Plus it would raise ticket prices further, crowding out the demographic we really want to attract: the average Cornell student.  Lynah, as it stands today, is a vaunted relic of simpler times and undefeated seasons, precisely because of its benches and lack of video and low rafters with banners hanging.  I've been to many arenas, but there's no place I'd rather watch hockey than Lynah.

[upprdeck]

you can build the student section with benches if thats what they need to stand up.  the goal is to get the energy back in the bldg and having half filled student sections isnt doing it now. RIT is no bigger than lynah but its a whole bunch nicer. they have a crazy student section too. ticket prices dont have to change to put a new bldg in. do you know how much is sitting there unused ear marked for a new lynah?

the kids who made lynah what it was are not getting into lynah because they cant get into the school any more with the admission policies.

the school added seats, demand went down and so did attendance. we should go back to 3000 seats in a new arena the place will look packed again and still feel quant. put wooden seats in if you want it to feel like the 60's again..

you have 2 groups of people at the games.. students who dont see it as a thing to do and townies who think its over priced, under performing and to most its a dump..  if they kids have no energy and the team is avg why will the townies keep coming to a place thats uncomfortable, has poor food, and is hard to get too and get around in.

we went from a pond to a rink its time to take the next step.. this isnt fenway/wrigley with millions of people who care about staying  the same and even they have figured out change is good.

[TimV]

the school added seats, demand went down and so did attendance.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

No.

The team is boring to watch, frustrating, unexciting and unimaginative.  For the first time since the 70's, I'm not going to MSG for a Cornell game scheduled there.  Fix THAT stuff and I'd stand the whole game - on glass shards and hot coals - and still be a happy guy.

[KeithK]

you can build the student section with benches if thats what they need to stand up.  the goal is to get the energy back in the bldg and having half filled student sections isnt doing it now. RIT is no bigger than lynah but its a whole bunch nicer. they have a crazy student section too. ticket prices dont have to change to put a new bldg in. do you know how much is sitting there unused ear marked for a new lynah?

Realistically I don't think anyone would build a new arena with half benches and half seats. I can imagine students still standing with seats if the students who are around when the transition were to happen try to preserve the tradition. But it's less likely.

I have no idea if there is money sitting around earmarked for a new arena,  But unless there is evidence to the contrary I will assume that there isn't any.

the kids who made lynah what it was are not getting into lynah because they cant get into the school any more with the admission policies.

Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that we can't attract top flight hockey players anymore?  There certainly have been some issues with recruiting vs. admissions but this seems like an overbroad blanket statement.

the school added seats, demand went down and so did attendance. we should go back to 3000 seats in a new arena the place will look packed again and still feel quant. put wooden seats in if you want it to feel like the 60's again..

I agree that they guessed wrong thinking that there was suffficent demand in the market for the extra seats. Shrinking to 3000 would be overkill. The place was sold out at 3700 capacity for many years not that long ago and I'm not sure that there's been a structural drop in demand of 20%.

you have 2 groups of people at the games.. students who dont see it as a thing to do and townies who think its over priced, under performing and to most its a dump..  if they kids have no energy and the team is avg why will the townies keep coming to a place thats uncomfortable, has poor food, and is hard to get too and get around in.

Because there's nothing else to do in Ithaca? :-)

I agree that people will come to the rink if they enjoy the experience. I have a hard time relating to folks who don't enjoy a hockey game because of the food or the concourses (which don't seem that difficult to get around in post-renovation).  i even have a hard timrelating to people not enjoying it because the team isn't championship quality.  I got hooked in 93-94 when we were atrocious.  I guess the program has to think about people with this attitude since they need to sell tickets.  But I for one wouldn't donate money to build a new arena to cater to these attitudes. (I know, no one is asking me and I couldn't give that much anyway.)

we went from a pond to a rink its time to take the next step.. this isnt fenway/wrigley with millions of people who care about staying  the same and even they have figured out change is good.

Agree to disagree here.  Wrigley and fenway are the best places in MLB to watch a ballgame precisely because of the old school "features" (drawbacks to some). The new places are convienent but don't have the same feel. I feel the same about hockey arenas.

[Rosey]

are we going to live in Lynah forever?

Why not?  In all seriousness, the three most interesting rinks in the ECAC are, IINM, the three oldest: Lynah, Hobey, and Appleton.

Really? My vote is for the Whale. In all seriousness, Ingalls is probably the most fascinating, beautiful, and functional sports arena I've ever been in, period. Lynah is great because of what happened there, and because it's small and loud, but otherwise it has very few virtues. The building itself is neither pretty nor distinguished. It's a barn that happened to host some of my fondest memories. I wish people wouldn't romanticize it beyond the bounds of credibility.

Aesthetically, new buildings have all the charm of an office building.

This is a garbage generalization, and you know it.

[Rosey]

The team is boring to watch, frustrating, unexciting and unimaginative.  For the first time since the 70's, I'm not going to MSG for a Cornell game scheduled there.  Fix THAT stuff and I'd stand the whole game - on glass shards and hot coals - and still be a happy guy.

<2005>QFT.

[Rosey]

... and fenway are the best places in MLB to watch a ballgame precisely because of the old school "features" (drawbacks to some).

Yeah, Fenway is awesome if you like looking at support posts and craning your head 70 degrees to the left to see the infield if you didn't pay a ton for your seats.

Fenway is a dump designed by someone whose primary goals clearly weren't comfort or sight lines, and built several eras before modern engineering. I think people who like watching baseball games at Fenway like the idea of watching baseball and the experience of being in a historic ballpark more than the reality of watching a baseball game. Fenway is a terrible place to actually watch a baseball game compared to most modern ballparks. Camden Yards is a much better Fenway than Fenway.

At this point, I can't even.

[Trotsky]

This is a garbage generalization, and you know it.

You coming on to me, Kyle?

[Towerroad]

... and fenway are the best places in MLB to watch a ballgame precisely because of the old school "features" (drawbacks to some).

Yeah, Fenway is awesome if you like looking at support posts and craning your head 70 degrees to the left to see the infield if you didn't pay a ton for your seats.

Fenway is a dump designed by someone whose primary goals clearly weren't comfort or sight lines, and built several eras before modern engineering. I think people who like watching baseball games at Fenway like the idea of watching baseball and the experience of being in a historic ballpark more than the reality of watching a baseball game. Fenway is a terrible place to actually watch a baseball game compared to most modern ballparks. Camden Yards is a much better Fenway than Fenway.

At this point, I can't even.

I agree. Fenway is a dump. I have been to the new Detroit part and is is really nice. Comfortable seats and easy access to concessions. And then there is the Cathedral of Baseball, Yankee Stadium. The new stadium is georgous, historic, and comfortable and the temple of the graceful extraction of money from your wallet. Sitting there in the sun, worshiping before the green alter is an experience.

I used to be skeptical about new parks but no longer. Bring on the wrecking ball.

[Trotsky]

Baseball has gotten a lot better.  Hockey is still in that transitional Three Rivers / Riverfront stage where every new building looks exactly the same.  The initial shininess fades and in a decade you're stuck with an old vision of what new looks like.

They're just veal fattening pens to suck the money from your wallet, anyway, and Cornell won't replace Lynah's replacement until the youngest person on this forum is dead, so let's be choosy.