Basketball 2014-15

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

Another Courtney collapse. I'm shocked.

I was at the hockey game and the announced the b-ball score.  We had a 5 or 6 point lead.  I found myself thinking "I hope they don't blow it again."

Then I heard that they did.

[billhoward]

Another Courtney collapse. I'm shocked.

Brown 57, Cornell 56 on a shot with 2 seconds to play. Cornell led the game for 39:28 of the 40 minutes. Leaving Cornell at, I believe, either just one or two games won where the margin of victory was 5 points or less, or it went to OT.

11 point lead at the half. 17 point lead in the second half...this isn't the only time this season, and this isn't the only season of it either. Penn State, Drexel, Penn come to mind this season.

I feel bad for Courtney. He seems like a good guy and he has brought in better athletes than program has probably ever had. I just wish he could coach them.

Maybe the talent is mostly the starting five, and the bench is short (more ways than one) and not same caliber. Some would Syracuse caught up to Cornell in the 2009 lax title game because we wore out the first midfield in the first three quarters. 'course, it wasn't worn out players that didn't call a time-out with 3 seconds to play.

Courtney has one more year on his contract? A .500 coach (more or less) is not going to be let go with a year left.

[CAS]

I've read this is the last year of a 5-year contract.  Courtney's teams are 23-43 in the Ivies, and 4-6 this year.

[Ken711]

I've read this is the last year of a 5-year contract.  Courtney's teams are 23-43 in the Ivies, and 4-6 this year.

I think he's in the last year as well.

[ithacat]

Another Courtney collapse. I'm shocked.

Brown 57, Cornell 56 on a shot with 2 seconds to play. Cornell led the game for 39:28 of the 40 minutes. Leaving Cornell at, I believe, either just one or two games won where the margin of victory was 5 points or less, or it went to OT.

11 point lead at the half. 17 point lead in the second half...this isn't the only time this season, and this isn't the only season of it either. Penn State, Drexel, Penn come to mind this season.

I feel bad for Courtney. He seems like a good guy and he has brought in better athletes than program has probably ever had. I just wish he could coach them.

Maybe the talent is mostly the starting five, and the bench is short (more ways than one) and not same caliber. Some would Syracuse caught up to Cornell in the 2009 lax title game because we wore out the first midfield in the first three quarters. 'course, it wasn't worn out players that didn't call a time-out with 3 seconds to play.

Courtney has one more year on his contract? A .500 coach (more or less) is not going to be let go with a year left.

I think this is the final season of his current contract. It wouldn't surprise me if he receives an extension.

[scoop85]

Another Courtney collapse. I'm shocked.

Brown 57, Cornell 56 on a shot with 2 seconds to play. Cornell led the game for 39:28 of the 40 minutes. Leaving Cornell at, I believe, either just one or two games won where the margin of victory was 5 points or less, or it went to OT.

11 point lead at the half. 17 point lead in the second half...this isn't the only time this season, and this isn't the only season of it either. Penn State, Drexel, Penn come to mind this season.

I feel bad for Courtney. He seems like a good guy and he has brought in better athletes than program has probably ever had. I just wish he could coach them.

Maybe the talent is mostly the starting five, and the bench is short (more ways than one) and not same caliber. Some would Syracuse caught up to Cornell in the 2009 lax title game because we wore out the first midfield in the first three quarters. 'course, it wasn't worn out players that didn't call a time-out with 3 seconds to play.

Courtney has one more year on his contract? A .500 coach (more or less) is not going to be let go with a year left.

I think this is the final season of his current contract. It wouldn't surprise me if he receives an extension.

That seems to be the scuttlebutt, although few coaches would be less deserving on an extension based on his team's 5-year performance.

[ithacat]

Another Courtney collapse. I'm shocked.

Brown 57, Cornell 56 on a shot with 2 seconds to play. Cornell led the game for 39:28 of the 40 minutes. Leaving Cornell at, I believe, either just one or two games won where the margin of victory was 5 points or less, or it went to OT.

11 point lead at the half. 17 point lead in the second half...this isn't the only time this season, and this isn't the only season of it either. Penn State, Drexel, Penn come to mind this season.

I feel bad for Courtney. He seems like a good guy and he has brought in better athletes than program has probably ever had. I just wish he could coach them.

Maybe the talent is mostly the starting five, and the bench is short (more ways than one) and not same caliber. Some would Syracuse caught up to Cornell in the 2009 lax title game because we wore out the first midfield in the first three quarters. 'course, it wasn't worn out players that didn't call a time-out with 3 seconds to play.

Courtney has one more year on his contract? A .500 coach (more or less) is not going to be let go with a year left.

I think this is the final season of his current contract. It wouldn't surprise me if he receives an extension.

That seems to be the scuttlebutt, although few coaches would be less deserving on an extension based on his team's 5-year performance.

If Steve was given more time then Bill seems deserving of the same opportunity. Their records after 5 years are comparable, even including last season's debacle. If Miller wasn't hurt last year I suspect Bill's record over 5 years would be much better than Steve's was. Bill certainly benefitted from the base that Steve built so it isn't an entirely fair comparison. Steve also showed his program was slowly improving while Bill's seems to be stuck in the same spot, though this could turn out to be his best season.

Steve

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7–20 3–11 T–7th
5–22 2–12 7th
9–18 4–10 T–5th
11–16 6–8 T–5th
13–14 8–6 2nd


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[b]45-90   23-47[/b]

Bill

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10–18 6–8 T–5th
12–16 7–7 5th
13–18 5–9 T–6th
2–26 1–13 8th
13-14 5-6     T-4th

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[b]50-92   24-43[/b]


[mountainred]

Comparing Bill's record to Steve's is a bit unfair to both.  Bill took over a program in much better shape than Steve did. On the other hand, the Ivy League is much better and deeper now than it was at any point in Steve's tenure.

The case for keeping Bill:  He is all by all accounts a very good person whom the players like and respect.  They played harder than many teams would have down the stretch of last season.  The players stay out of trouble and graduate; that still matters at an Ivy (or at least it should).  Other than last year's debacle, we've been competitive in an Ivy League that is much deeper than it ever has been.  Now that Bill has his players, you see the kind of defense the Big Red will play.  Top 100 defenses will be "the new normal" and with any offense, we can go to the post-season (CIT or CBI, if not the big show).  Sure, we lose six seniors from this team, but other than Shonn they are replaceable.  In short, Bill is fine considering our basketball pedigree and he takes care of the bigger picture stuff.

The case to move on:  Last season, he oversaw literally the worst season of Cornell basketball in the school's history; that shouldn't be glossed over.  His record over the last three years with Shonn Miller in the line-up is 26-29, without Shonn it's 2-30.  We don't have Shonn next year.  Seniors account for approximately 60 percent of the minutes and two-thirds of the points on this year's team.  Maybe none of the non-Shonn seniors are irreplaceable, but no one on the bench has made a case for more PT. The defensive work is a "flash in the pan" and unsustainable without Miller. Even if it were sustainable, the offense has regressed so that it is worse than last year.  The only time we've had a decent offense under Bill is when 'ski was running the point.  This program has needed an "X and O guy" for years and he's not found one.  He's a great guy, but not a head coach.

I've made my feeling known for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if Andy gives him an extension because basketball is a low priority and Bill is low maintenance.  Unless there is another Shonn Miller in this year's class, doing so will look like a mistake in three years.

[Ken711]

Comparing Bill's record to Steve's is a bit unfair to both.  Bill took over a program in much better shape than Steve did. On the other hand, the Ivy League is much better and deeper now than it was at any point in Steve's tenure.

The case for keeping Bill:  He is all by all accounts a very good person whom the players like and respect.  They played harder than many teams would have down the stretch of last season.  The players stay out of trouble and graduate; that still matters at an Ivy (or at least it should).  Other than last year's debacle, we've been competitive in an Ivy League that is much deeper than it ever has been.  Now that Bill has his players, you see the kind of defense the Big Red will play.  Top 100 defenses will be "the new normal" and with any offense, we can go to the post-season (CIT or CBI, if not the big show).  Sure, we lose six seniors from this team, but other than Shonn they are replaceable.  In short, Bill is fine considering our basketball pedigree and he takes care of the bigger picture stuff.

The case to move on:  Last season, he oversaw literally the worst season of Cornell basketball in the school's history; that shouldn't be glossed over.  His record over the last three years with Shonn Miller in the line-up is 26-29, without Shonn it's 2-30.  We don't have Shonn next year.  Seniors account for approximately 60 percent of the minutes and two-thirds of the points on this year's team.  Maybe none of the non-Shonn seniors are irreplaceable, but no one on the bench has made a case for more PT. The defensive work is a "flash in the pan" and unsustainable without Miller. Even if it were sustainable, the offense has regressed so that it is worse than last year.  The only time we've had a decent offense under Bill is when 'ski was running the point.  This program has needed an "X and O guy" for years and he's not found one.  He's a great guy, but not a head coach.

I've made my feeling known for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if Andy gives him an extension because basketball is a low priority and Bill is low maintenance.  Unless there is another Shonn Miller in this year's class, doing so will look like a mistake in three years.

Good analysis. It would give hope going forward if there were some outstanding underclassmen returning, but that as you point out is not the case.

[mountainred]

Comparing Bill's record to Steve's is a bit unfair to both.  Bill took over a program in much better shape than Steve did. On the other hand, the Ivy League is much better and deeper now than it was at any point in Steve's tenure.

The case for keeping Bill:  He is all by all accounts a very good person whom the players like and respect.  They played harder than many teams would have down the stretch of last season.  The players stay out of trouble and graduate; that still matters at an Ivy (or at least it should).  Other than last year's debacle, we've been competitive in an Ivy League that is much deeper than it ever has been.  Now that Bill has his players, you see the kind of defense the Big Red will play.  Top 100 defenses will be "the new normal" and with any offense, we can go to the post-season (CIT or CBI, if not the big show).  Sure, we lose six seniors from this team, but other than Shonn they are replaceable.  In short, Bill is fine considering our basketball pedigree and he takes care of the bigger picture stuff.

The case to move on:  Last season, he oversaw literally the worst season of Cornell basketball in the school's history; that shouldn't be glossed over.  His record over the last three years with Shonn Miller in the line-up is 26-29, without Shonn it's 2-30.  We don't have Shonn next year.  Seniors account for approximately 60 percent of the minutes and two-thirds of the points on this year's team.  Maybe none of the non-Shonn seniors are irreplaceable, but no one on the bench has made a case for more PT. The defensive work is a "flash in the pan" and unsustainable without Miller. Even if it were sustainable, the offense has regressed so that it is worse than last year.  The only time we've had a decent offense under Bill is when 'ski was running the point.  This program has needed an "X and O guy" for years and he's not found one.  He's a great guy, but not a head coach.

I've made my feeling known for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if Andy gives him an extension because basketball is a low priority and Bill is low maintenance.  Unless there is another Shonn Miller in this year's class, doing so will look like a mistake in three years.

Good analysis. It would give hope going forward if there were some outstanding underclassmen returning, but that as you point out is not the case.

Thanks.  It's too early to write-off this year's freshman class, but most of Bill's recruits have shown how good they will be during their freshman year.  I wouldn't surprised if Pat Smith and Jordan Abdur-Ra'oof are contributors going forward, but neither looks like a future all-Ivy.  We have six incoming freshman, but the only one who is rated by ESPN is Stone Gettings (#65 PF).  ESPN describes his game as: "He can step out and knock in the 17-foot jump shot as he fits that pick-and-pop 4-man description to a tee."  That sounds like a perfect Donahue player -- a Jon Jacques clone -- but an awful fit for Courtney's system.  Here's hoping some other guys emerge from the class.

[Weder]

The New York Times writes about Shonn Miller and the possibilities for his final season of eligibility. Tommy Amaker and Bill Courtney both say he could play for a major.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/04/sports/ncaabasketball/shonn-miller-to-play-a-fifth-year-but-it-cant-be-at-cornell.html

[mountainred]

Tommy Amaker and Bill Courtney both say he could play for a major.

There's not much question he could play for a big time program; he's really that good.  But it's not as unusual as you seem to think.  Nolan Cressler transferred to Vandy.  Errick Peck played 15 minutes a game in a post graduate year at Purdue.  Dwight Tarwater has earned a starting gig in a post-graduate year at Cal (which is more PT than I figured, nicely done Dwight).  So we had four guys on 2012-13 squad who play, played or very likely will play for a power 5 program.  At the risk of antagonizing Bill, that team finished 13-18 and tied for 6th in the league.  Yeah, Miller missed the last four games that season (all losses) but the other three guys played all season.

[Weder]

Tommy Amaker and Bill Courtney both say he could play for a major.

There's not much question he could play for a big time program; he's really that good.  But it's not as unusual as you seem to think.  Nolan Cressler transferred to Vandy.  Errick Peck played 15 minutes a game in a post graduate year at Purdue.  Dwight Tarwater has earned a starting gig in a post-graduate year at Cal (which is more PT than I figured, nicely done Dwight).  So we had four guys on 2012-13 squad who play, played or very likely will play for a power 5 program.  At the risk of antagonizing Bill, that team finished 13-18 and tied for 6th in the league.  Yeah, Miller missed the last four games that season (all losses) but the other three guys played all season.

I was just trying to give more detail about what's in the story. I don't think it's unusual at all.

[mountainred]

Tommy Amaker and Bill Courtney both say he could play for a major.

There's not much question he could play for a big time program; he's really that good.  But it's not as unusual as you seem to think.  Nolan Cressler transferred to Vandy.  Errick Peck played 15 minutes a game in a post graduate year at Purdue.  Dwight Tarwater has earned a starting gig in a post-graduate year at Cal (which is more PT than I figured, nicely done Dwight).  So we had four guys on 2012-13 squad who play, played or very likely will play for a power 5 program.  At the risk of antagonizing Bill, that team finished 13-18 and tied for 6th in the league.  Yeah, Miller missed the last four games that season (all losses) but the other three guys played all season.

I was just trying to give more detail about what's in the story. I don't think it's unusual at all.

Sorry, read too much into your comment.

[CAS]

Cornell hoops getting crushed by last-place Penn. Red will finish 5-9 in Ivies. Btw Penn has fired their coach Jerome Allen.