Lake Placid Attendance

[Josh '99]

I can see the players liking it a lot and enjoying playing there. It is obvious that the league and some of the coaches are trying to pass LP as a recruiting tool. However, I wonder how much it really effects recruiting. I just can't see a player thinking: "Well, BC wants me bad and so does Cornell. But dang I could play at Lake Placid if my Cornell teams(s) makes it to the ECAC's. Yeah, definitely CU. LP here I come!"

I also wonder about the recruiting effect of LP.  Specifically I wonder how much the LP Olympics and Miracle mean to a kid that was born in the mid to late 90's. Sure they've heard about it and the movie helps but the context of those games has to be somewhat lost on someone for whom the Cold War is something out of a textbook.

For that matter, it probably doesn't mean nearly as much to the roughly half of our players who are from Canada.

[andyw2100]

For that matter, it probably doesn't mean nearly as much to the roughly half of our players who are from Canada.

Which could be one of the reasons why Schafer's first choice was Albany ant not Lake Placid.

[adamw]

I understand that it's the school's choice, but why don't they ever do a poll of the fans from each school. See where they would prefer. Sure it would cost some money, but not much. Sure, it wouldn't identify, for sure, those fans that would actually attend. But I'm also sure that a school like Quinnipiac, which has done many polls and has a polling institute, could design one that would be reasonably accurate.

Age ran a poll here when it was announced two years ago, and people were overwhelmingly in favor of Lake Placid. The people against it are a vocal minority.

[adamw]

For that matter, it probably doesn't mean nearly as much to the roughly half of our players who are from Canada.

I disagree. I almost think it matters more. And that is the jist of my argument.

Look - you're never going to be able to effectively measure the recruiting advantage, whatever it is. No one is delusional enough to think it makes THAT much of a difference. But sometimes, it can. And it may be subtle, cumulative effects - perhaps even sub-conscious.

I always go back to the idea ... some kid in Manitoba hears where the tournaments are located ... "Boston, Detroit, St. Paul" - big NHL arenas. Then -- the ECACs are in .... Albany? Bridgeport?  How could it not give a subtle message that the ECAC is second class?  I mean, the new WCHA is in Grand Rapids.  It's screaming the same thing right now.

Well - that's not the ECAC's fault - it doesn't have a natural place to go. And its schools are smaller and there aren't tons of fans to draw from, so no big arena is clamoring for them to be there.

But if you can say "Lake Placid" is connected to your name, it no longer sends the "second class" message. It's all about branding.

Hey - feel free to disagree if you want - but that's what I believe. And enough of the ECAC schools believed it as well.  I don't think money had to do with it in this case.  For Atlantic City, it was all about money and a stab in the dark.  For this, the money was all relatively the same for all arenas that were in contention -- Albany, Bridgeport, Providence and L.P.

[Jim Hyla]

I understand that it's the school's choice, but why don't they ever do a poll of the fans from each school. See where they would prefer. Sure it would cost some money, but not much. Sure, it wouldn't identify, for sure, those fans that would actually attend. But I'm also sure that a school like Quinnipiac, which has done many polls and has a polling institute, could design one that would be reasonably accurate.

Age ran a poll here when it was announced two years ago, and people were overwhelmingly in favor of Lake Placid. The people against it are a vocal minority.

Very scientific!

[redice]

Hey - feel free to disagree if you want - but that's what I believe. And enough of the ECAC schools believed it as well.  I don't think money had to do with it in this case.  For Atlantic City, it was all about money and a stab in the dark.  For this, the money was all relatively the same for all arenas that were in contention -- Albany, Bridgeport, Providence and L.P.

Disagree?    I do!  Thanks for the opportunity.

I think the Conference needs to stop moving it around, pick a spot, and build on it.   Moving it around every few years, gives the appearance that they don't know what the hell they're doing.    How in the world can they ever hope to have a successful tournament ANYWHERE, if it stays someplace 2-3 years & is gone to supposedly greener pastures.   And, with each move, we're told how wonderful this new venue will be for the teams, the fans, blah blah blah.   It was bullshit when they blathered that about the first LP iteration (& all venues since) and they'll step up and do the same again.    It's getting old.     I do believe the real change should be within the Conference office.    Get some people who can right the ship!!

[scoop85]

For that matter, it probably doesn't mean nearly as much to the roughly half of our players who are from Canada.

I disagree. I almost think it matters more. And that is the jist of my argument.

Look - you're never going to be able to effectively measure the recruiting advantage, whatever it is. No one is delusional enough to think it makes THAT much of a difference. But sometimes, it can. And it may be subtle, cumulative effects - perhaps even sub-conscious.

I always go back to the idea ... some kid in Manitoba hears where the tournaments are located ... "Boston, Detroit, St. Paul" - big NHL arenas. Then -- the ECACs are in .... Albany? Bridgeport?  How could it not give a subtle message that the ECAC is second class?  I mean, the new WCHA is in Grand Rapids.  It's screaming the same thing right now.

Well - that's not the ECAC's fault - it doesn't have a natural place to go. And its schools are smaller and there aren't tons of fans to draw from, so no big arena is clamoring for them to be there.

But if you can say "Lake Placid" is connected to your name, it no longer sends the "second class" message. It's all about branding.

Hey - feel free to disagree if you want - but that's what I believe. And enough of the ECAC schools believed it as well.  I don't think money had to do with it in this case.  For Atlantic City, it was all about money and a stab in the dark.  For this, the money was all relatively the same for all arenas that were in contention -- Albany, Bridgeport, Providence and L.P.

I agree the branding is better with Lake Placid, but the inconvenience for the fans is the biggest negative.  As others have stated NYC would likely be the preferred fan destination (and would certainly eliminate the "second class" concerns), but if that's not feasible, then LP may be the best alternative.

[BMac]

Adam, that's the best reasoning I've heard yet.

Having never been to LP, I supported the idea of LP just because... well, *I* want to see it!
(It's not happening for me this year, but that's another story).

But when we're fighting against the other leagues with tournaments in Boston Garden, Joe Louis Arena, etc, I'd much, much rather say that we're playing in 1980 rink than the Times-Union-Pepsi-Rinkrats-Center.

I live in Boston now, and one of my good friends is a BU fan. (I know, I know). He asked about our tournament- I'd much rather say "Lake Placid" than Albany, or heaven-forfend AC. It makes the ECAC look... kind of classy. Which is cool.

On a side note: I bet a Cornell-BU out-of-conference game at Lake Placid would fill the arena. Especially if the ECAC made a long-term agreement to stay there and put up some kind of "ECAC Champions through the years" banner/plaque somewhere.

[marty]

Adam, that's the best reasoning I've heard yet.

Having never been to LP, I supported the idea of LP just because... well, *I* want to see it!
(It's not happening for me this year, but that's another story).

But when we're fighting against the other leagues with tournaments in Boston Garden, Joe Louis Arena, etc, I'd much, much rather say that we're playing in 1980 rink than the Times-Union-Pepsi-Rinkrats-Center.

I live in Boston now, and one of my good friends is a BU fan. (I know, I know). He asked about our tournament- I'd much rather say "Lake Placid" than Albany, or heaven-forfend AC. It makes the ECAC look... kind of classy. Which is cool.

OK, I can see this.  I don't have to agree but I can understand the logic.

On a side note: I bet a Cornell-BU out-of-conference game at Lake Placid would fill the arena. Especially if the ECAC made a long-term agreement to stay there and put up some kind of "ECAC Champions through the years" banner/plaque somewhere.

But this:

::screwy::

[mha]

I think the novelty and nostalgia factors of Lake Placid are very real but very finite, and I disagree that players born in the '90s wouldn't feel that attraction. These are hockey players we're talking about, and these are two legendary hockey venues in one spot.

But I do feel the novelty is limited, perhaps as much as the novelty of playing at Madison Square Garden. Playing there once was amazing! Every two or three years lets everyone try it. Schedule a game there every year, and I think the fans will rapidly lose interest and stop coming, and then playing there will start to feel like a game against Colgate in Newark.

I loved Boston, and we really made that town ours for the weekend. I loved Lake Placid despite the inconvenient drive and limited lodging, and we got the hang of its quirks. I loved Albany for the convenient drive and great lodging and eatery options, and we really built some habits there. I... went to Atlantic City.

We're on our way back to Lake Placid, and I think we'll have fun there. WE are the attraction. We get to enjoy some good hockey and time with each other. Seems like a good start.

[Josh '99]

I understand that it's the school's choice, but why don't they ever do a poll of the fans from each school. See where they would prefer. Sure it would cost some money, but not much. Sure, it wouldn't identify, for sure, those fans that would actually attend. But I'm also sure that a school like Quinnipiac, which has done many polls and has a polling institute, could design one that would be reasonably accurate.

Age ran a poll here when it was announced two years ago, and people were overwhelmingly in favor of Lake Placid. The people against it are a vocal minority.

Very scientific!

It could be that the poll results were, in part, a gut reaction of "HOORAY IT'S NOT GOING TO BE IN ATLANTIC CITY ANYMORE!!!"

[Josh '99]

But I do feel the novelty is limited, perhaps as much as the novelty of playing at Madison Square Garden. Playing there once was amazing! Every two or three years lets everyone try it. Schedule a game there every year, and I think the fans will rapidly lose interest and stop coming, and then playing there will start to feel like a game against Colgate in Newark.

I'm a staunch New Jersey defender, but I have to say that it would take a LOT of repetition for Lake Placid to start to feel like Newark.

[BMac]

Two old ECAC powers battling it out in an historic rink?
The reminder for fans of both schools of their long ECAC history?
Lake Placid becoming THE place for the ECAC?

What's not to like?

(Obviously it doesn't make sense with BU because of the MSG series. But still.)

[Jim Hyla]

So was it a success?

Attendance in LP, from ECAC box scores:

Semis  4337
Finals 4850

Forgetting about AC, the semis were second lowest ever, and the finals were the lowest ever. Anybody think there would have been more in Albany?

Having said that, my wife and I had a good time. In addition to the games and shopping, a nice dinner with Ed Ambis'72, and a member of the '70 team who won in LP. Next year we're coming up on Thursday and leaving sometime Sunday. But that's what you can do when you're semi-retired. Other fans, I'm not so sure.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

I was frankly disappointed in the Cornell turnout.  There was one small group of students.  They were loud and active, but few in number.