11/2 Quinnipiac

[Dafatone]

I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

I believe that.  Six years ago, I had seats in D, and a friend really got on the opposing goalie at the start of the 2nd.  Kind of a quiet time before the period started, and my friend just was going on and on about how much the goalie sucked.  No swearing, nothing offensive, but a lot of loud, insistent insults.  An usher came over and told him to stop, and we were pretty shocked.

The last time I was at Lynah a few years ago, one of the colossal douchebags threatened to throw my friend out if he didn't remove his hat during the national anthem. Now, your opinion on removing one's hat during the national anthem aside, what this situation really pointed out to me is that there are too many ushers with not enough actual work to do that they feel a need to micromanage individual behavior that isn't a danger to anyone else or physically disruptive of the game (e.g., throwing objects onto the ice), the only things they really should be involved in. IMO, they really need to go fuck themselves, and next time one of them accosts me I will seek Phil out and tell him so myself even if I get banned from the rink forever.

15 years of family friendly policies have almost certainly contributed to the decline of the Lynah atmosphere: forgive me for sounding like the old man I am, but the atmosphere in the rink really was a lot better objectively when I was a student. Students got there earlier; there were a lot more of them; and they were louder (and mostly in sync). Unlike (say) opinions of whether our chants were better than those of the kids today, these things are measurable and in decline.

I'm even older than you (so, hey, grave dibs!) and I'll go 50% of the way to agreement.  The ushers can overreact and that's obviously not good, and since they have to deal with hundreds of people in a section they sometimes enforce first and think later.  Still, they are not autonomous.  They have to listen to university suits who in turn have to listen to the kind of people who write into newspapers and express outrage that girls' ankles are now clearly visible and WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!!!???!

So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation.  As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old.  The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Are you certain this is still the case?  Cause it was fading in my day (2005-2007) at least in sections D and F, and that seems to be getting worse.

[Rosey]

So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation.  As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old.  The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Sorry, but this is a terrible straw man. We all know, and have either read here or experienced personally, ushers targeting behavior that doesn't even come 10% of the way to this, you included. A few messages back I brought up one that you must have missed in your rush to defend the ushers as reluctant tyrants. Sorry, but your analysis is pure horseshit.

And for the record, yes, I agree that the ushers are mostly the messengers interpreting and delivering the mandates of the higher-ups. I have no lever that high in University management, however, so I provide feedback where I can. The ushers can go fuck themselves if they target behavior that isn't directly in danger of harming someone else or interfering with the game. Billy will survive hearing some college kids cursing in unison. The Lynah atmosphere has not survived the chilling effect of capricious ejections. The damage has already been done.

BTW, I feel some unwanted vindication for my viewpoint from 17 years ago. All of you who were okay with the changes, and claimed the new family-friendly atmosphere would not impact the energy of the Lynah crowd, were flat-out wrong. The evidence is clearly on my side. I wish I were wrong, but... here we are. Because with the bad/unimaginative cursing also went the energy and the creativity from the other people drawn in by the initial experience. Maybe there's a way to get one without the other, but all I can tell you is the current approach is not a way to get there.

[Trotsky]

Are you certain this is still the case?  Cause it was fading in my day (2005-2007) at least in sections D and F, and that seems to be getting worse.

I am not sure.  It could be that the usher contract was re-bid to the Nazis.

IMHO, as a former long, long post-grad Section C season ticket holder, the cordoning off of C to non-students in the late 80's was the beginning of the end of Lynah's unique crowd experience.  I would like to think that those of us who transitioned our C student tickets kept at least a slight sinuous connection between B and D for a while, but that had definitely faded by the late 90's.  Returning that section to the students (giving current holders the option of grandfathering their seats but taking their chances) would restore the "wall of sound" that made Lynah at times deafening.  It would also remove the need to have to patrol that section and its neighbors for predations against the old and young.

It wasn't always a paradise, BTW.  Even in the "silver age" of Lynah (post-GA but pre-gutting-of-C) there were long stretches when even though the rink was loud the chants were boring and needlessly disgusting (the objection isn't to profanity, but lack of imagination).  But (1) it was almost always loud, and (2) almost always people were trying out new things.  I leave it to current ticket holders to say whether either of those things is still true.

[Trotsky]

So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation.  As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old.  The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Sorry, but this is a terrible straw man. We all know, and have either read here or experienced personally, ushers targeting behavior that doesn't even come 10% of the way to this, you included. A few messages back I brought up one that you must have missed in your rush to defend the ushers as reluctant tyrants. Sorry, but your analysis is pure horseshit.

Yeah, sure.  It's the Warsaw Ghetto.  We get it, who is John Galt.

[Rosey]

So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation.  As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old.  The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Sorry, but this is a terrible straw man. We all know, and have either read here or experienced personally, ushers targeting behavior that doesn't even come 10% of the way to this, you included. A few messages back I brought up one that you must have missed in your rush to defend the ushers as reluctant tyrants. Sorry, but your analysis is pure horseshit.

Yeah, sure.  It's the Warsaw Ghetto.  We get it, who is John Galt.

Wow, ad hominem. You're on a roll. There are another 100 or so fallacies listed on Wikipedia; it might be an interesting challenge to hit them all in one thread.

[Trotsky]

So the relationship between the ushers and the fans has always been a negotiation.  As a rule, the ushers want absolutely nothing less than to get into confrontations with students, but they will get in a shit ton of trouble if some drunken frat boy yelling THE REF FUCKS SHEEP at the top of his lungs topples over and squashes an 8-year old.  The usher isn't setting policy, he's interpreting it, and generally speaking if you demonstrate that you're not THAT GUY, you can stand, chant, and be a good loud wonderfully obnoxious Lynah fan. The Powers That Be don't give a shit whether the rink is quiet or loud; they just don't want to be a party to a lawsuit that claims they didn't do enough to protect Little Betty Sue from being assaulted by Delta McBrofuck.

Sorry, but this is a terrible straw man. We all know, and have either read here or experienced personally, ushers targeting behavior that doesn't even come 10% of the way to this, you included. A few messages back I brought up one that you must have missed in your rush to defend the ushers as reluctant tyrants. Sorry, but your analysis is pure horseshit.

Yeah, sure.  It's the Warsaw Ghetto.  We get it, who is John Galt.

Wow, ad hominem. You're on a roll. There are another 100 or so fallacies listed on Wikipedia; it might be an interesting challenge to hit them all in one thread.

Wow, incorrect use of ad hominem, which is an attack on a person, not an argument.

To help you out, this is ad hominem: I'd be a lot more likely to take you seriously if EVERYTHING you had written the last ten years didn't sound like a screen test for The Last Fellation of Murray Rothbard.

[Rosey]

To help you out, this is ad hominem: I'd be a lot more likely to take you seriously if EVERYTHING you had written the last ten years didn't sound like a screen test for The Last Fellation of Murray Rothbard.

So you're not disputing my argument, then? ;-) Glad we got that cleared up: it's long past time you admitted you were wrong on this.

[Scersk '97]

It wasn't always a paradise, BTW.  Even in the "silver age" of Lynah (post-GA but pre-gutting-of-C) there were long stretches when even though the rink was loud the chants were boring and needlessly disgusting (the objection isn't to profanity, but lack of imagination).  But (1) it was almost always loud, and (2) almost always people were trying out new things.  I leave it to current ticket holders to say whether either of those things is still true.

Ah-ha! I take exception. The late 90s, on the rebound from the miserable mid 90s, were a return to irreverent, creative mob humor in Lynah—prodded along, I would like to think, at first by the pepband, which had never lost faith, and then taking on a life of its own. Certainly a continuation of the "silver age," as you say. When did it all change? I think humor declined precipitously after 2005, and noise is now following suit.

Code Select Expand


We are sick, we are sick,
We are sick, sick, sick,
Like we're sociologically sick!

Who do I blame?  (1) Society. (2) Technology. (3) Economy.

(1) A sheep-like generation, taught to be so by their hovering parents. Don't offend; don't get out of line. Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason, honey...
(2) Difficult to come up with great extemporaneous humor when you're watching YouTube vide... Look at what those cats are doing!!!111
(3) Reinforcing (1), who wants to step out of line when anything you do might possibly impinge upon your uncertain, bleak economic prospects? And the rent, it's "too damn high!"

PS Whoever thought it a great idea to remain silent while the color guard leaves the ice didn't think through the chilling effect this practice has on the crowd. (Indeed, why is the color guard more than a couple steps on the ice in the first place? In my memories, they pretty much took one step onto the ice and did their business from there.)

I'm all about honoring the troops: I have a few former and current particular "troops" very frequently in mind, actually. But I think this particular tradition constitutes a very weird way to honor anybody. A moment of silence at the start of every game? What "troop" would want that? Not the ones I know, living or dead.

Whatever you think about our military operations in the Middle East, I just hope that we can commemorate the end of our formal role in the conflicts there with a return to status quo ante bellum with regard to this crowd-dampening "tradition." Honor the troops daily by helping them re-acclimate themselves to civilian society; otherwise, have a moment of silence on Memorial Day and get on with your lives.

[Dafatone]

It wasn't always a paradise, BTW.  Even in the "silver age" of Lynah (post-GA but pre-gutting-of-C) there were long stretches when even though the rink was loud the chants were boring and needlessly disgusting (the objection isn't to profanity, but lack of imagination).  But (1) it was almost always loud, and (2) almost always people were trying out new things.  I leave it to current ticket holders to say whether either of those things is still true.

(1) A sheep-like generation, taught to be so by their hovering parents. Don't offend; don't get out of line. Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason, honey...

Let me just point out that I think too much is blamed on generations, how parents raise kids, and how kids are, and not enough is blamed on society/people as a whole.

Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people.  "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

[Rosey]

Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people.  "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

Just look at the TSA, the agency that defines the tradeoff of liberty for illusory safety. There's too much authority worship in the US nowadays. (Whoops, I'd better watch: I'm probably sounding too much like Rothbard for Greg's tastes. Better goose-step a bit and say how much I love our federal overlords. I *LOVE* the Leader! Na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na LEA-DER!)

[Scersk '97]

Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people.  "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

I'll raise my fist to that but still disagree. I just think it's getting worse, not better.

[Dafatone]

Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people.  "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

Just look at the TSA, the agency that defines the tradeoff of liberty for illusory safety. There's too much authority worship in the US nowadays. (Whoops, I'd better watch: I'm probably sounding too much like Rothbard for Greg's tastes. Better goose-step a bit and say how much I love our federal overlords. I *LOVE* the Leader! Na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na LEA-DER!)

Personally, I don't think the authority worship is as government related as it is media/structural.  Lots of people are really angry at the government, but many of those same people have their own structures of authority (news organizations, organized angry internet groups, online college hockey forums) to adhere to.

[Rosey]

Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people.  "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

Just look at the TSA, the agency that defines the tradeoff of liberty for illusory safety. There's too much authority worship in the US nowadays. (Whoops, I'd better watch: I'm probably sounding too much like Rothbard for Greg's tastes. Better goose-step a bit and say how much I love our federal overlords. I *LOVE* the Leader! Na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na LEA-DER!)

Personally, I don't think the authority worship is as government related as it is media/structural.  Lots of people are really angry at the government, but many of those same people have their own structures of authority (news organizations, organized angry internet groups, online college hockey forums) to adhere to.

Agreed 100%: I didn't mean to suggest that this authority worship is limited to government. It's a general problem that people are too worried (in many cases, rightfully so) that rocking the boat will screw them in some way.

[Trotsky]

Most of the problems that are heaped on today's kids are actually problems for all of today's people.  "Authority lies in someone else's hands for a reason" is a mantra for a whole lot of the population.

I'll raise my fist to that but still disagree. I just think it's getting worse, not better.

Well, the first rule of misanthropy is don't criticize the tongue lashing of one group of people just because it singles them out.  :-}

I can think of no reason why "kids today" would be any better, worse, or different than kids in my day or even those few brief years before me just after the Earth's crust had cooled.  There is nothing new under the sun, so perhaps naively I think if we recreated the physical conditions* of the early Lynah the social psychology would follow.

(* perhaps the secret all along was the gross bathrooms?  We could try that again.)

[RichH]

I heard the people in D were told they had to sit. Not sure if that came from people in C or E complaining, but there it is.

Wow. The traditional sit/stand battle-line has been Section G (see my own post linked below). That it has been very quickly pushed to Section D (leaping over even F and E) suprises me a lot.

http://elf.elynah.com/read.php?1,133345,133438#msg-133438