Captain McCarron?

[Jim Hyla]

What if I just don't care at all? I'm sure it is an honor to be chosen captain but from the outside I do not give a shit who gets an extra patch.

Agree, it makes no differance as to how I watch and enjoy, or not, the games

[Josh '99]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

[Trotsky]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

There's another one.  Cornell's all-time leader in PIM/GP is also Cornell's #2 all-time leader in Pts/GP, and served as a captain as a junior (though interestingly not as a senior).

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

What if I just don't care at all? I'm sure it is an honor to be chosen captain but from the outside I do not give a shit who gets an extra patch.

+1

[Josh '99]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

There's another one.  Cornell's all-time leader in PIM/GP is also Cornell's #2 all-time leader in Pts/GP, and served as a captain as a junior (though interestingly not as a senior).

I'm stunned, STUNNED, that you didn't link to your website in this post.  :-P

[Trotsky]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

There's another one.  Cornell's all-time leader in PIM/GP is also Cornell's #2 all-time leader in Pts/GP, and served as a captain as a junior (though interestingly not as a senior).

I'm stunned, STUNNED, that you didn't link to your website in this post.  :-P

Just for you.

[Jim Hyla]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

There's another one.  Cornell's all-time leader in PIM/GP is also Cornell's #2 all-time leader in Pts/GP, and served as a captain as a junior (though interestingly not as a senior).

I'm stunned, STUNNED, that you didn't link to your website in this post.  :-P

Just for you.

But that was back when men were men.::twak::

[css228]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

There's another one.  Cornell's all-time leader in PIM/GP is also Cornell's #2 all-time leader in Pts/GP, and served as a captain as a junior (though interestingly not as a senior).

Just saying there's a reason Dave Schultz didn't captain the Broad Street Bullies. That said, even as the all time penalty minutes in a single season record holder, The Hammer never hurt his team quite as much as a guy like McCarron does because nearly all of his penalty minutes were offset by a 5 on the other team. Not to mention Schultz was also a decent hockey player scoring 200 career NHL points despite spending 4.28 minutes in the box per game. To go back to what I've said all along. Goonery with skill is one thing. If you can kill the penalties you take, there is some advantage to be drawn from physical intimidation (this does not including the stupid stick penalties Dustin Mowery seems to be so fond of taking). Goonery without skill is embarrassing and hurts your team. You can only afford to be rough and physical if you can minimize the consequences. Otherwise you're writing a check you can't cash.

[Josh '99]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

There's another one.  Cornell's all-time leader in PIM/GP is also Cornell's #2 all-time leader in Pts/GP, and served as a captain as a junior (though interestingly not as a senior).

I'm stunned, STUNNED, that you didn't link to your website in this post.  :-P

Just for you.

Don't worry, I already found it.  (On your site, to be fair.)

[Trotsky]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

There's another one.  Cornell's all-time leader in PIM/GP is also Cornell's #2 all-time leader in Pts/GP, and served as a captain as a junior (though interestingly not as a senior).

Just saying there's a reason Dave Schultz didn't captain the Broad Street Bullies.

Although Bobby Clarke, the actual captain, was hardly a choir boy (but to be fair not the cementhead Schultz was).

[RichH]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

There's another one.  Cornell's all-time leader in PIM/GP is also Cornell's #2 all-time leader in Pts/GP, and served as a captain as a junior (though interestingly not as a senior).

Just saying there's a reason Dave Schultz didn't captain the Broad Street Bullies. That said, even as the all time penalty minutes in a single season record holder, The Hammer never hurt his team quite as much as a guy like McCarron does because nearly all of his penalty minutes were offset by a 5 on the other team. Not to mention Schultz was also a decent hockey player scoring 200 career NHL points despite spending 4.28 minutes in the box per game. To go back to what I've said all along. Goonery with skill is one thing. If you can kill the penalties you take, there is some advantage to be drawn from physical intimidation (this does not including the stupid stick penalties Dustin Mowery seems to be so fond of taking). Goonery without skill is embarrassing and hurts your team. You can only afford to be rough and physical if you can minimize the consequences. Otherwise you're writing a check you can't cash.

I know you hate the guy as a player, so I'm not going to change your opinion.  But just to resettle my own opinion with a quick session of fact-checking, I walked through the box scores of this season.  

Boxes: http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/schedules/corm
McCarron game-by-game: http://www.collegehockeynews.com/players/career/John-McCarron/27841

First of all, the standout game when you look at the data is the infamous Game 2 QF blowout at Qunnipiac. McCarron alone picked up 27 PIMs, with one elbowing minor, two 10-minute misconducts, and one 5-minute major.  For the melee that concluded the 2nd period, McCarron was the only player on either team not to pick up a roughing minor to go along with the misconduct.  I don't recall why, but my guess is that it was given because he left the bench...more on that later.  McCarron's 2nd misconduct of that game was assessed along with a "contact-to-the-head" penalty in the 3rd as QU's Dalhuisen was hit with a roughing penalty at the same time.  It isn't exactly fair to say "excluding that game," because it happened, but I will note that 1/3 of McCarron's PIMs for the entire season came in that one game.  Without that one game, he is alongside Ferlin, Lowry, De Swardt, and Mowrey in PIMs.

OK, but what about the rest of the season?  By my count, he had 16 minors, 1 major, and 2 misconducts in 32 games.  Included in the minors were two "tough guy" penalties: charging the goalie and unsportsmanlike conduct.  The Nov. 30th game vs Clarkson saw him pick up the 5-minute major and the 10-minute DQ for "leaving the bench." In that stoppage, three Clarkson players were assessed 10-minute misconducts and Clarkson's McPherson was also assessed a 5-minute major for "hitting after the whistle."  No other CU players were penalized in that event.  The score was 1-0 Cornell at the time, and if leaving the bench gave him a 5-minute major, he most likely cost the team a 5:00 PP that was already coming (depending on the circumstances...I honestly don't remember what happened).  Cornell won that game as well as the following game McCarron had to sit out.  The other misconduct he received this season was at the home RPI game. Mowrey received a 2-minute slashing penalty and McCarron received a 10-minute misconduct with no minor attached.

Over half of his penalty minutes this season (44 of 84) came in two games.

There were two other games besides that Clarkson and Quinnipiac where he was hit with more than 1 penalty: CC to open the season (3 minors) and at Union (2 minors).  That was surprising to me. In 18 of his 33 games, he was clean on the penalty sheet.

I don't see that side of his game as thuggery or the aggitator/instigator (ala Steve Wilson) as much as over-reacting in "you can't do that to my teammate" situations. Does he play physically and aggressively? Without question.  The surprising thing to me that separates him from a talentless goon? His scoring numbers. He's 7 points behind Ferlin and Lowry in career scoring through 2 seasons.  After returning from his DQ, he put up 8 points in 7 games, with 6 PIMs.  The "goonery without skill" line in the above post has been completely debunked for me.  He's not afraid to hit, but he can put points on the board too.

Coming away from this walk through the box scores...it just seems to me that he's the guy who sticks up for his teammates. He's usually clean, until things get nasty somehow, and then he's the first to jump in the thick of it.  He's the one who leaves the bench when there's trouble.  I'm guessing that's why he's getting a letter.

All this said, my initial reaction to this thread is that it's pretty laughable that any fan thinks they deserve any say on who should be chosen as captains.  But I'm glad I actually took a look at the numbers.

[KeithK]

Coming away from this walk through the box scores...it just seems to me that he's the guy who sticks up for his teammates. He's usually clean, until things get nasty somehow, and then he's the first to jump in the thick of it.  He's the one who leaves the bench when there's trouble.  I'm guessing that's why he's getting a letter.

Seems like a reasonable assessment to me.  Hopefully as captain and with another year under his belt he'll temper the "first guy off the bench" instinct a bit.

All this said, my initial reaction to this thread is that it's pretty laughable that any fan thinks they deserve any say on who should be chosen as captains.  But I'm glad I actually took a look at the numbers.

We as fans certainly don't have or deserve any say in who gets to be captains.  but it's to be expected that we'll discuss the choices the team makes and we have a right to do so.  We should just do so with the understanding thatwe don't have all of the information that went into the decision (i.e. behind the scenes stuff).

[RichH]

We as fans certainly don't have or deserve any say in who gets to be captains.  but it's to be expected that we'll discuss the choices the team makes and we have a right to do so.  We should just do so with the understanding thatwe don't have all of the information that went into the decision (i.e. behind the scenes stuff).

A reasonable statement.

I'm surprised nobody has commented yet (until now) on the unusual step of giving a goaltender a letter. IIRC, this was an interesting topic the last time it happened here (I'm guessing Underhill?), since the on-ice duties of captains are approaching refs, etc.

[marty]

All this said, my initial reaction to this thread is that it's pretty laughable that any fan thinks they deserve any say on who should be chosen as captains.  But I'm glad I actually took a look at the numbers.

I, too, am glad you looked at this.  Thanks.

[css228]

Mike Schafer led the team in PIM his junior year. He was a tri-captain his senior year, when he again led the team in PIM. And a lot of those were pretty stupid penalties, but the team won the ECAC.

I knew there was an obvious example I wasn't coming up with.

There's another one.  Cornell's all-time leader in PIM/GP is also Cornell's #2 all-time leader in Pts/GP, and served as a captain as a junior (though interestingly not as a senior).

Just saying there's a reason Dave Schultz didn't captain the Broad Street Bullies. That said, even as the all time penalty minutes in a single season record holder, The Hammer never hurt his team quite as much as a guy like McCarron does because nearly all of his penalty minutes were offset by a 5 on the other team. Not to mention Schultz was also a decent hockey player scoring 200 career NHL points despite spending 4.28 minutes in the box per game. To go back to what I've said all along. Goonery with skill is one thing. If you can kill the penalties you take, there is some advantage to be drawn from physical intimidation (this does not including the stupid stick penalties Dustin Mowery seems to be so fond of taking). Goonery without skill is embarrassing and hurts your team. You can only afford to be rough and physical if you can minimize the consequences. Otherwise you're writing a check you can't cash.

I know you hate the guy as a player, so I'm not going to change your opinion.  But just to resettle my own opinion with a quick session of fact-checking, I walked through the box scores of this season.  

Boxes: http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/schedules/corm
McCarron game-by-game: http://www.collegehockeynews.com/players/career/John-McCarron/27841

First of all, the standout game when you look at the data is the infamous Game 2 QF blowout at Qunnipiac. McCarron alone picked up 27 PIMs, with one elbowing minor, two 10-minute misconducts, and one 5-minute major.  For the melee that concluded the 2nd period, McCarron was the only player on either team not to pick up a roughing minor to go along with the misconduct.  I don't recall why, but my guess is that it was given because he left the bench...more on that later.  McCarron's 2nd misconduct of that game was assessed along with a "contact-to-the-head" penalty in the 3rd as QU's Dalhuisen was hit with a roughing penalty at the same time.  It isn't exactly fair to say "excluding that game," because it happened, but I will note that 1/3 of McCarron's PIMs for the entire season came in that one game.  Without that one game, he is alongside Ferlin, Lowry, De Swardt, and Mowrey in PIMs.

OK, but what about the rest of the season?  By my count, he had 16 minors, 1 major, and 2 misconducts in 32 games.  Included in the minors were two "tough guy" penalties: charging the goalie and unsportsmanlike conduct.  The Nov. 30th game vs Clarkson saw him pick up the 5-minute major and the 10-minute DQ for "leaving the bench." In that stoppage, three Clarkson players were assessed 10-minute misconducts and Clarkson's McPherson was also assessed a 5-minute major for "hitting after the whistle."  No other CU players were penalized in that event.  The score was 1-0 Cornell at the time, and if leaving the bench gave him a 5-minute major, he most likely cost the team a 5:00 PP that was already coming (depending on the circumstances...I honestly don't remember what happened).  Cornell won that game as well as the following game McCarron had to sit out.  The other misconduct he received this season was at the home RPI game. Mowrey received a 2-minute slashing penalty and McCarron received a 10-minute misconduct with no minor attached.

Over half of his penalty minutes this season (44 of 84) came in two games.

There were two other games besides that Clarkson and Quinnipiac where he was hit with more than 1 penalty: CC to open the season (3 minors) and at Union (2 minors).  That was surprising to me. In 18 of his 33 games, he was clean on the penalty sheet.

I don't see that side of his game as thuggery or the aggitator/instigator (ala Steve Wilson) as much as over-reacting in "you can't do that to my teammate" situations. Does he play physically and aggressively? Without question.  The surprising thing to me that separates him from a talentless goon? His scoring numbers. He's 7 points behind Ferlin and Lowry in career scoring through 2 seasons.  After returning from his DQ, he put up 8 points in 7 games, with 6 PIMs.  The "goonery without skill" line in the above post has been completely debunked for me.  He's not afraid to hit, but he can put points on the board too.

Coming away from this walk through the box scores...it just seems to me that he's the guy who sticks up for his teammates. He's usually clean, until things get nasty somehow, and then he's the first to jump in the thick of it.  He's the one who leaves the bench when there's trouble.  I'm guessing that's why he's getting a letter.

All this said, my initial reaction to this thread is that it's pretty laughable that any fan thinks they deserve any say on who should be chosen as captains.  But I'm glad I actually took a look at the numbers.

You know what I'd written something out arguing this, but I'm not going to call out incident by incident a fellow student like that. Let's just say that he's not what I would choose in a captain. Then again my ideal captains are along the line of Toews, Lidstrom, Clarkie, Pronger, etc. Guys who clearly have the respect of not only everyone in the locker room but every one in the league, including the referees. Not sure that the new captain fits that mold.