Lacrosse polls 2013

[ugarte]

More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.

No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.

[Jim Hyla]

More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.

No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.

Not always:

Saves: Hobart 18 (Peter Zonino), Syracuse 7 (Dominic Lamolinara). Shots: Syracuse 46-29. Faceoffs: Syracuse 20-9. Extra-man opps: Hobart 3-5, Syracuse 1-3. Ground balls: Syracuse 37-28.

[ugarte]

More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.

No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.

Not always:

Saves: Hobart 18 (Peter Zonino), Syracuse 7 (Dominic Lamolinara). Shots: Syracuse 46-29. Faceoffs: Syracuse 20-9. Extra-man opps: Hobart 3-5, Syracuse 1-3. Ground balls: Syracuse 37-28.

I wasn't talking about Syracuse or stats in general. I'll highlight the difference-maker in Syracuse - Hobart.

[Swampy]

More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.

No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.

Well, Yale killed us at FO's and we still won by 2. Doug T. & the FO unit currently rank 14th in the country on FO's. So they're a good but not elite unit.

[billhoward]

Denver loses to Fairfield in OT (its sixth one-goal game in 2013) and the emperor's reign at the top is done for now. Cornell up slightly to sixth (was seventh) in the USILA poll for 4/22/13 after beating Brown. Syracuse slipping to ninth from fifth after losing to Hobart. Big weekend in the Meadlowlands, Cornell-Princeton 4pm, Syracuse-Notre Dame 6:30. Princeton dismantled Harvard Saturday, remains #12.

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USILA POLL 4/22/13 http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1usila/2013-04-22
Rank    Team (W-L)                      Votes   Firsts                      
1 University N Carolina (10 - 3) 176 6
2 University Notre Dame (10 - 2) 167 3
3 University of Maryland (9 - 2) 157
4 University of Denver (10 - 3) 151
5 Duke University (11 - 4) 143
[b]6 Cornell University (11 - 2) 138[/b]
7 Loyola University (10 - 3) 130
8 Penn State University (10 - 3) 112
[b]9 Syracuse University (10 - 3) 109[/b]
10 University at Albany (10 - 3) 98
11 Johns Hopkins Un (8 - 4) 84
[b]12 Princeton University (8 - 4) 77[/b]
13 Ohio State University (9 - 3) 66
[b]13 Bucknell University (11 - 3) 66[/b]
[b]15 Yale University (8 - 4)        57[/b]
16 Lehigh University (10 - 4) 55
[b]17 Drexel University (10 - 3) 39[/b]
18 University of Penn (7 - 4) 28
19 Army (8 - 4)             10
20 Fairfield University (8 - 5) 7
Cornell and opponents in boldface.


Nike/Media poll much friendlier, has Cornell at #4 and a first place vote.

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Rank Team Points 1st Place Votes
1 Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 2) 408 15
2 Univ of Maryland (9 - 2) 374 2
3 Univ of North Carolina (10 - 3) 368 3
4 Cornell University (11 - 2) 337 1
5 University of Denver (10 - 3) 331
6 Duke University (11 - 4) 320
7 Syracuse University (10 - 3) 308
8 Loyola University (10 - 3) 285
9 Penn State University (10 - 3) 246
10 University at Albany (10 - 3) 201
11 Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 4) 196
12 Princeton University (8 - 4) 171
13 Ohio State University (9 - 3) 163
14 Lehigh University (10 - 4) 147
15 Yale University (8 - 4) 135
16 Bucknell University (11 - 3) 121
17 Drexel University (10 - 3) 102
18 University of Penn (7 - 4) 55
19 Villanova University (5 - 7) 29
20 Saint Johns University (8 - 4) 22
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES Fairfield University , Army , Towson University , Marist College , Hobart College


The two top 20s show Albany, Army, Lehigh and St John's as nearby top 20 teams we could have played instead of Siena, Colgate, Binghamton or Canisus for a better strength of schedule. At least we know that in hindsight.

The Kessenich Report http://insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/04/22/quints-top-20-and-analysis-april-22 has Cornell seventh, Princeton 12th. The Hopkins alum devotes 246 of the 1,952 words for teams 1-20 in his top 20 analysis on guess-which team and its game?

[Jim Hyla]

LaxPower Computer ranking has us second.

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                                          Power   POLL  SOS   RPI   QWF   TSI
 Rank       Team                          Rating  Rnk   Rnk   Rnk   Rnk   Rnk    Records
 
   1        Maryland                      99.90     3     4     3     3     2    9- 2- 0
   2        Cornell                       99.88     6    25     5    23     6   11- 2- 0
   3        North Carolina                99.49     1     3     4     4     1   10- 3- 0
   4        Johns Hopkins                 99.34    11    14    16    15    11    8- 4- 0
   5        Loyola                        99.08     7    20     9    25     9   10- 3- 0
   6        Princeton                     98.98    12     9    18    17    12    8- 4- 0
   7        Notre Dame                    98.65     2     8     2     1     3   10- 2- 0
   8        Denver                        98.48     4    11     1     2     4   10- 3- 0
   9        Yale                          98.39    15     5    11    18     7    8- 4- 0
  10        Penn State                    98.30     8    18     6     9     8   10- 3- 0
  11        Duke                          98.19     5    15     7     6     5   11- 4- 0
  12        Penn                          98.15    18     2    14     8    13    7- 4- 0
  13        Albany                        98.04    10    30    13    12    15   10- 3- 0
  14        Syracuse                      97.74     9    13    10     5    10   10- 3- 0
  15        Bucknell                      97.61    13    24     8     7    14   11- 3- 0

RPI from Inside Lacrosse has us 5.

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RANK SCHOOL  CONFERENCE  RECORD ROAD NEUTRAL HOME NON-DI
1 Denver        ECAC   10-3 4-0 1- 2 5-1 0-0
2 Notre Dame Big East   10-2 4-0 2- 0 4-2 0-0
3 Maryland ACC    9-2 6-0 0- 0 3-2 0-0
4 North Carolina ACC   10-3 3-1 0- 1 7-1 0-0
5 Cornell Ivy   11-2 5-1 1- 0 5-1 0-0
6 Penn St. Colonial   10-3 6-0 1- 1 3-2 0-0
7 Duke        ACC   11-4 3-1 0- 0 8-3 0-0
8 Bucknell Patriot    11-3 6-1 0- 0 5-2 0-0
9 Loyola Maryland ECAC   10-3 6-1 1- 0 3-2 0-0
10 Syracuse Big East   10-3 3-1 1- 0 6-2 0-0
11 Yale        Ivy    8-4 3-3 0- 0 5-1 0-0
12 Ohio St. ECAC    9-3 6-1 0- 0 3-2 0-0
13 Albany (NY) Amer East  10-3 7-1 0- 0 3-2 0-0
14 Penn        Ivy    7-4 3-3 0- 0 4-1 0-0
15 Drexel        Colonial   10-3 3-3 0- 0 7-0 0-0


Not that I believe either of them.

[Josh '99]

LaxPower Computer ranking has us second.

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                                          Power   POLL  SOS   RPI   QWF   TSI
 Rank       Team                          Rating  Rnk   Rnk   Rnk   Rnk   Rnk    Records
 
   1        Maryland                      99.90     3     4     3     3     2    9- 2- 0
   2        Cornell                       99.88     6    25     5    23     6   11- 2- 0
   3        North Carolina                99.49     1     3     4     4     1   10- 3- 0
   4        Johns Hopkins                 99.34    11    14    16    15    11    8- 4- 0
   5        Loyola                        99.08     7    20     9    25     9   10- 3- 0
   6        Princeton                     98.98    12     9    18    17    12    8- 4- 0
   7        Notre Dame                    98.65     2     8     2     1     3   10- 2- 0
   8        Denver                        98.48     4    11     1     2     4   10- 3- 0
   9        Yale                          98.39    15     5    11    18     7    8- 4- 0
  10        Penn State                    98.30     8    18     6     9     8   10- 3- 0
  11        Duke                          98.19     5    15     7     6     5   11- 4- 0
  12        Penn                          98.15    18     2    14     8    13    7- 4- 0
  13        Albany                        98.04    10    30    13    12    15   10- 3- 0
  14        Syracuse                      97.74     9    13    10     5    10   10- 3- 0
  15        Bucknell                      97.61    13    24     8     7    14   11- 3- 0


This was the case last week as well, and I'm a little puzzled by it.  The various other ranks don't have us any higher than 5th in the case of RPI, and as low as 25th in the case of SOS.  Based on the other ranks posted, it would seem like there are valid reasons why UNC and Notre Dame should be ahead of us, and maybe even still Denver too.  Their ranking scheme is a bit opaque, if I recall correctly from the last time I looked into it, tough, so hopefully they're right.

[billhoward]

SOS #25. Binghamton, Colgate, Hobart, Canisus, Siena put a hit on our SOS. You can't know in advance who's up and down. And we want to play other NYS teams to help NYS and save on travel. I would bet that a schedule with Albany-Army in place of Binghamton-Siena would be stronger most years and Binghamton may be a same-day trip. Playing Lehigh as well as Bucknell would help SOS. How soon before we book Penn State, 180 miles away?

Most of the rest of the Ivy League can do better on SOS because they play us and Princeton.

[semsox]

No chance we play Penn State with Tambroni there. Additionally, the W over Virginia in most years is definitely one to hang your hat on, and I would have guessed a stronger year out of Colgate with Baum coming back.

[Josh '99]

SOS #25. Binghamton, Colgate, Hobart, Canisus, Siena put a hit on our SOS. You can't know in advance who's up and down. And we want to play other NYS teams to help NYS and save on travel. I would bet that a schedule with Albany-Army in place of Binghamton-Siena would be stronger most years and Binghamton may be a same-day trip. Playing Lehigh as well as Bucknell would help SOS. How soon before we book Penn State, 180 miles away?

Most of the rest of the Ivy League can do better on SOS because they play us and Princeton.

I think you missed my point.  I'm puzzled by how high our Laxpower rank is given the relatively low numbers in the other ranking metrics, especially the low SoS as influenced the weak NYS opposition that you keep mentioning with such frequency that I'm starting to think it must have something to do with the lighting at Quinnipiac's rink.

[semsox]

I believe the Laxpower rankings take into account scoring margins and such. I don't think it's that much of a stretch, as Cornell has one of the most efficient offenses and defenses in the country. All of the advanced lacrosse metrics rank Cornell very high; it just seems some of the human pollsters are not seeing it to the same extent. If the numbers keep where they are, the team will begin turning more heads as it gets ready for a hopefully very, very deep playoff run.

[TimV]

Yeh.  Everybody who had 2 Patriot League teams from Pennsylvania and St. Johns ahead of UVa in your preseason thoughts raise your hand.::nut::

[Jim Hyla]

I believe the Laxpower rankings take into account scoring margins and such. I don't think it's that much of a stretch, as Cornell has one of the most efficient offenses and defenses in the country. All of the advanced lacrosse metrics rank Cornell very high; it just seems some of the human pollsters are not seeing it to the same extent. If the numbers keep where they are, the team will begin turning more heads as it gets ready for a hopefully very, very deep playoff run.

Correct, they use a margin of victory which has scoring margin and home/away as part of the mix.

[billhoward]

Correct, they use a margin of victory which has scoring margin and home/away as part of the mix.

Isn't there a cap on MOV to collapse the effect of the early 19-11, 11-6, 19-3, 18-7 runaways?

[kingpin248]

Correct, they use a margin of victory which has scoring margin and home/away as part of the mix.

Isn't there a cap on MOV to collapse the effect of the early 19-11, 11-6, 19-3, 18-7 runaways?

10 goals.