Future of NCAA Regionals

[Chris '03]

With declining attendance at regionals, discussion about returning to campus sites has started percolating.  CHN has a piece about it today: http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2013/04/01_regional_sites_no_easy_answers.php

There's no good answer but the arenas this weekend mostly looked pretty depressing. Not AC levels of terrible but bad.

I tend to think neutral sites are a must.  Even Manchester rubs me slightly the wrong way since UNH plays games there regularly.

Would there be anything wrong with going to two 8 team regionals? It won't fix the attendance issues all together but could, theoretically, help them.  Play two semis Friday, two semis Saturday, and both finals Sunday. Then you only need to find two good sites each year instead of four, the games all still get televised, there's an increase in attendance, and neutral ice is maintained.

[BMac]

Are sites really neutral now?

You pointed out Manchester; I'll point out our team having to play Minnesota in Minneapolis and Wisconsin in Milwaukee in '05 and '06 respectively.

It's like if we played BU at the Boston/TD Garden. It's a home game for their fans.

I dislike it as a Cornell fan (we'll never get that sort of treatment unless it was at MSG). But it's great for attendance.

I wouldn't mind going down to two eight-team regionals (East and West). Would be a really fun hockey weekend.

Alternate idea: would sticking a regional in a "destination location" work? Montreal, Lake Placid (for those of us who haven't been there), or Atlanti sorry.

[KeithK]

With declining attendance at regionals, discussion about returning to campus sites has started percolating.  CHN has a piece about it today: http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2013/04/01_regional_sites_no_easy_answers.php

There's no good answer but the arenas this weekend mostly looked pretty depressing. Not AC levels of terrible but bad.

I tend to think neutral sites are a must.  Even Manchester rubs me slightly the wrong way since UNH plays games there regularly.

Would there be anything wrong with going to two 8 team regionals? It won't fix the attendance issues all together but could, theoretically, help them.  Play two semis Friday, two semis Saturday, and both finals Sunday. Then you only need to find two good sites each year instead of four, the games all still get televised, there's an increase in attendance, and neutral ice is maintained.

Your super regional idea helps with attendance for the finals but not necessarily for the semifinal days, unless you require attendees to buy the whole weekend as a package (which might tend to decrease attendance by making things more expensive). The stretched schedule for half of the bracket (riday-Sunday) would tend to decrease attendance for fans of those teams, because you'd have to block out three days, not just two.

Not to say this wouldn't work.  I'm just noting things that you'd want to consider.

[Rosey]

I don't know if it would matter. Even when held at Lynah, the ECAC QFs regularly draw fewer fans than regular season games do. I think the problem with the regionals is that they're regionals. I would never travel a long distance to a regional because even if my team wins... it's only halfway to the prize. Screw that: I'll save my travel money and time for the Frozen Four, thankyouverymuch. The downside of moving regionals back to campus sites is that the top seed can take advantage its fan base, on top of all the other advantages they have with playing in their own barns, but the upside is that the top seed is in a natural position to handle all the logistics for a series of games that just aren't going to draw that much attention. I don't see a serious problem with it.

[KeithK]

Alternate idea: would sticking a regional in a "destination location" work? Montreal, Lake Placid (for those of us who haven't been there), or Atlanti sorry.

They've tried destination locations for the FF (Anaheim) and attendance suffered. I doubt you'd get great attendance in the locations you mentioned.  You also need someone to host (do the legwork), which might be challenging.

[Chris '03]

With declining attendance at regionals, discussion about returning to campus sites has started percolating.  CHN has a piece about it today: http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2013/04/01_regional_sites_no_easy_answers.php

There's no good answer but the arenas this weekend mostly looked pretty depressing. Not AC levels of terrible but bad.

I tend to think neutral sites are a must.  Even Manchester rubs me slightly the wrong way since UNH plays games there regularly.

Would there be anything wrong with going to two 8 team regionals? It won't fix the attendance issues all together but could, theoretically, help them.  Play two semis Friday, two semis Saturday, and both finals Sunday. Then you only need to find two good sites each year instead of four, the games all still get televised, there's an increase in attendance, and neutral ice is maintained.

Your super regional idea helps with attendance for the finals but not necessarily for the semifinal days, unless you require attendees to buy the whole weekend as a package (which might tend to decrease attendance by making things more expensive). The stretched schedule for half of the bracket (riday-Sunday) would tend to decrease attendance for fans of those teams, because you'd have to block out three days, not just two.

Not to say this wouldn't work.  I'm just noting things that you'd want to consider.

100% agree. The ticketing gets messy either way and there's no guarantee it moves the needle very far. I don't think you can sell three-day tickets and not have people turn their noses up at the cost. I also don't think you can play four games in one day and not have it be a disaster.

I do think though that if the regionals are somewhat predictable (e.g. east alternates worcester/albany; west grand rapids/green bay) there is potential for some group of fans to commit to that weekend as a hockey holiday the same way many do the same for the frozen four.  For many, the frozen four is too costly an endeavor to commit to every year due to travel costs.  If you put regionals in reasonable driving distances for enough fans, they might go every year whether their team is there or not.

That then opens the next pandora's box. Do you regionalize the regionals in the name of attendance? I don't like this any more than tournament home games... but, I bet you'd have greater attendance if you knew the site your team was playing well in advance.  If all eastern teams are slotted to Albany, then it's easy for fans of teams to get hotel rooms and buy tickets early. No waiting until five days before for last minute hotel deals or flights.

[Rosey]

That then opens the next pandora's box. Do you regionalize the regionals in the name of attendance? I don't like this any more than tournament home games... but, I bet you'd have greater attendance if you knew the site your team was playing well in advance.  If all eastern teams are slotted to Albany, then it's easy for fans of teams to get hotel rooms and buy tickets early. No waiting until five days before for last minute hotel deals or flights.

And think of the entertainment value of having the Frozen Four always be East vs. West. The USCHO forum would be insane.

[Rita]

Are sites really neutral now?

You pointed out Manchester; I'll point out our team having to play Minnesota in Minneapolis and Wisconsin in Milwaukee Green Bay in '05 and '06 respectively. It's like if we played BU at the Boston/TD Garden. It's a home game for their fans.

I dislike it as a Cornell fan (we'll never get that sort of treatment unless it was at MSG). But it's great for attendance.

I wouldn't mind going down to two eight-team regionals (East and West). Would be a really fun hockey weekend.

Alternate idea: would sticking a regional in a "destination location" work? Montreal, Lake Placid (for those of us who haven't been there), or Atlanti sorry.

The Frozen Four in 2006 was in Milwaukee, and as we all know, Cornell didn't make it to Milwaukee .

[BMac]

Alternate idea: would sticking a regional in a "destination location" work? Montreal, Lake Placid (for those of us who haven't been there), or Atlanti sorry.

They've tried destination locations for the FF (Anaheim) and attendance suffered. I doubt you'd get great attendance in the locations you mentioned.  You also need someone to host (do the legwork), which might be challenging.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I wouldn't have picked Anaheim as a destination, though... I was thinking more a hockey destination.

[Josh '99]

Alternate idea: would sticking a regional in a "destination location" work? Montreal, Lake Placid (for those of us who haven't been there), or Atlanti sorry.

They've tried destination locations for the FF (Anaheim) and attendance suffered. I doubt you'd get great attendance in the locations you mentioned.  You also need someone to host (do the legwork), which might be challenging.

I'm not convinced that the problem with Anaheim wasn't a poorly-chosen destination rather than a problem with the concept of a non-traditional destination.  Attendance in Tampa was great and (IMO) a good time was had by all.  I could see Montreal being similar.

[KeithK]

Alternate idea: would sticking a regional in a "destination location" work? Montreal, Lake Placid (for those of us who haven't been there), or Atlanti sorry.

They've tried destination locations for the FF (Anaheim) and attendance suffered. I doubt you'd get great attendance in the locations you mentioned.  You also need someone to host (do the legwork), which might be challenging.

I'm not convinced that the problem with Anaheim wasn't a poorly-chosen destination rather than a problem with the concept of a non-traditional destination.  Attendance in Tampa was great and (IMO) a good time was had by all.  I could see Montreal being similar.

Fair enough.  I just threw out the one example I remembered that fit my point. I guess I could see Montreal being a e destination that's somewhat easy to get to (amjor), a nice town with a good hockey atmosphere.  Whether the locals would care about NCAA hockey is a different question.

Lake Placid, OTOH, would be a poor choice for travel reasons alone.

[underskill]

Alternate idea: would sticking a regional in a "destination location" work? Montreal, Lake Placid (for those of us who haven't been there), or Atlanti sorry.

They've tried destination locations for the FF (Anaheim) and attendance suffered. I doubt you'd get great attendance in the locations you mentioned.  You also need someone to host (do the legwork), which might be challenging.

I'm not convinced that the problem with Anaheim wasn't a poorly-chosen destination rather than a problem with the concept of a non-traditional destination.  Attendance in Tampa was great and (IMO) a good time was had by all.  I could see Montreal being similar.

Fair enough.  I just threw out the one example I remembered that fit my point. I guess I could see Montreal being a e destination that's somewhat easy to get to (amjor), a nice town with a good hockey atmosphere.  Whether the locals would care about NCAA hockey is a different question.

Lake Placid, OTOH, would be a poor choice for travel reasons alone.

There would be the other issue of cost and travel related to passports etc. for teams and fans though.

[dbilmes]

I can't recall any NCAA Tournament events being held outside of the U.S. I believe only American schools are in the NCAA.

[KeithK]

I can't recall any NCAA Tournament events being held outside of the U.S. I believe only American schools are in the NCAA.

Not true any more.  Simon Frasier University in BC is an NCAA member (D2)  as of last September.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2012/September/Simon+Fraser+charts+a+new+course

[Trotsky]

I would prefer to go back to best-of-three at campus sites for the First Round and QF, with a straight 1-16 seed according to PWR and then reseeding the remaining 8.  It would reward the top-seeded teams, make it far more likely the best teams in the country would meet in the Frozen Four, and make the Frozen Four unique in being the only neutral national tournament site (analogous to the conference tournaments).  And, obviously, it would ensure attendance and atmosphere.