Harvard 6 Cornell 1 ECAC post-game & site critique

[RichH]

Also, I know that geographically Upstate New York and Canada are proximate, but I do not know how many Upstaters (a significant portion of the ECAC fanbase with Clarkson, Colgate, Cornell, RPI, SLU, and Union) would be amenable to going to Canada to see their team play in another nation. Upstate New York is very proud of its hockey tradition. Even though they will cheer on players from Canada who come to play at august Upstate institutions, I doubt many would be happy to travel to Canada. Furthermore, I know that there are rumors that Toronto is in talks to host the 2015 Frozen Four, but Toronto has less of a language barrier (as manageable as it might be) than Montreal.

Clarkson has played non-conference games in Ottawa in recent years (vs. SLU in 2006 and Colgate in 2003) and they played North Dakota in Winnipeg THIS season.  But yeah, I don't think moving the conference championship to Canada is the answer for most of the reasons already spelled out.

A side observation: this season, Clarkson played neutral-site games in Alaska, Manitoba, Florida, Maine, and Lake Placid. Impressive, but where was the Arizona trip, slackers?

[RichH]

Bob Belber is just being a good salesman here. He also mentioned in this appearance that he often forces acts into Albany by packaging venues. His group controls some larger arenas. If an act wants to play in the big arena on the weekend it's often true that Albany sees them during the week. The Times Union Center's income went up in 2011 without the ECAC tourney. He is a very effective manager.

That answers my question from yesterday when I wondered how Albany got a date on Bruce Springsteen's current tour.

[jtwcornell91]

I seriously doubt you'd get ANY local support in Montreal, either.  There aren't too many Quebecois in the ECAC, and Montrealers are notoriously parochial about their hockey support. There are more Ontario kids in the ECAC, so if you were going to consider Canada (which you shouldn't) Ottowa or Toronto are better bets.

I agree Montreal wouldn't make any sense, but smaller Canadian cities like Ottawa or even smaller, maybe Kingston could make sense.  Geographically, I'm not sure if there's any other cities with teams in the O or the Q that make sense, but Kingston seems like it should be a reasonable distance from the best traveling ECAC fan bases.

We could get players' parents (and recruits) if we held it in Nanaimo **] (I was going to advocate St. Johns, which would be awesome for postgame drinking, but we seem to be limited to about one Newfoundlander every 10 years.)

[Aaron M. Griffin]

I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost.  And last I checked, that was over $100.

The State Department website isn't really clear about how long it takes to get a passport, but it seems like it usually takes 4-6 weeks and could take as long as 10 weeks unless you apply for an expedited passport and even then it's 2-3 weeks. That basically will prevent fans that don't already have passports from attending the game even if they're willing to pay the extra $60 for an expedited passport.

Turnaround can be much faster but it is far more costlier. Also, that is assuming there are no bureaucratic errors. The State Department made an error with my passport last summer, and generated and delivered a new one within two days. Then again, it could be because I needed it to take courses with Chief Justice Roberts over the summer in Florence. I don't think that the "I really need a passport to attend a hockey tournament" argument carries the same weight.

[bnr24]

I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost.  And last I checked, that was over $100.

Yup.  Over a hundred and for students or recent alumni on a budget who are already scraping money together to go to a tournament, an extra hundred dollars (assuming that they can actually get it in time which would not be feasible at all) is a lot.

[Chris '03]

I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost.  And last I checked, that was over $100.

The State Department website isn't really clear about how long it takes to get a passport, but it seems like it usually takes 4-6 weeks and could take as long as 10 weeks unless you apply for an expedited passport and even then it's 2-3 weeks. That basically will prevent fans that don't already have passports from attending the game even if they're willing to pay the extra $60 for an expedited passport.

Turnaround can be much faster but it is far more costlier. Also, that is assuming there are no bureaucratic errors. The State Department made an error with my passport last summer, and generated and delivered a new one within two days. Then again, it could be because I needed it to take courses with Chief Justice Roberts over the summer in Florence. I don't think that the "I really need a passport to attend a hockey tournament" argument carries the same weight.

I'm not sure "law student" ranks much higher on the state department's priority list over "hockey fan."

[Aaron M. Griffin]

I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost.  And last I checked, that was over $100.

The State Department website isn't really clear about how long it takes to get a passport, but it seems like it usually takes 4-6 weeks and could take as long as 10 weeks unless you apply for an expedited passport and even then it's 2-3 weeks. That basically will prevent fans that don't already have passports from attending the game even if they're willing to pay the extra $60 for an expedited passport.

Turnaround can be much faster but it is far more costlier. Also, that is assuming there are no bureaucratic errors. The State Department made an error with my passport last summer, and generated and delivered a new one within two days. Then again, it could be because I needed it to take courses with Chief Justice Roberts over the summer in Florence. I don't think that the "I really need a passport to attend a hockey tournament" argument carries the same weight.

I'm not sure "law student" ranks much higher on the state department's priority list over "hockey fan."

The State Department, especially under the current administration, advocates student-student cultural exchanges as one of the most effective elements of soft power for the United States. I think that students going abroad to pursue academic programs with students from other nations who will engage in such cultural exchanges are prioritized higher than students who are crossing the border for a few days to watch hockey and drink at an age that is considered too young in the United States.

[jtn27]

I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost.  And last I checked, that was over $100.

The State Department website isn't really clear about how long it takes to get a passport, but it seems like it usually takes 4-6 weeks and could take as long as 10 weeks unless you apply for an expedited passport and even then it's 2-3 weeks. That basically will prevent fans that don't already have passports from attending the game even if they're willing to pay the extra $60 for an expedited passport.

Turnaround can be much faster but it is far more costlier. Also, that is assuming there are no bureaucratic errors. The State Department made an error with my passport last summer, and generated and delivered a new one within two days. Then again, it could be because I needed it to take courses with Chief Justice Roberts over the summer in Florence. I don't think that the "I really need a passport to attend a hockey tournament" argument carries the same weight.

I'm not sure "law student" ranks much higher on the state department's priority list over "hockey fan."

The State Department, especially under the current administration, advocates student-student cultural exchanges as one of the most effective elements of soft power for the United States. I think that students going abroad to pursue academic programs with students from other nations who will engage in such cultural exchanges are prioritized higher than students who are crossing the border for a few days to watch hockey and drink at an age that is considered too young in the United States.

I think the fact that you were studying with the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court and not some random Italian professor might have also helped you, but the fact remains that a hockey tournament is probably not a good enough reason to get a passport on short notice.

[CKinsland]

If you're driving across the border into Canada you can use an "enhanced driver's license" as ID instead of a passport.  Cheaper and somewhat easier to get than a passport (though, it does require a trip to the DMV....ugh).  It isn't much faster than getting a passport.  

In my case, getting one for myself and enhanced, non-driver state IDs for my minor-age children instead of getting passports saved me a few hundred dollars.  Plus, I didn't have to deal with getting their father to sign anything (which I would have had to do for a passport).  I guess the government isn't concerned that I'm going to kidnap the children and flee to Canada or Mexico.

I do think the ID requirements make Canada a poor choice for the ECAC tourney...but somebody on here might want to cross the border and, I dunno, enjoy the pleasures of Ste Catherine St.

Enhanced IDs are a useful alternative to a full passport, but they do not have the broad utility of a passport.

CK

[Josh '99]

I seriously doubt you'd get ANY local support in Montreal, either.  There aren't too many Quebecois in the ECAC, and Montrealers are notoriously parochial about their hockey support. There are more Ontario kids in the ECAC, so if you were going to consider Canada (which you shouldn't) Ottowa or Toronto are better bets.

I agree Montreal wouldn't make any sense, but smaller Canadian cities like Ottawa or even smaller, maybe Kingston could make sense.  Geographically, I'm not sure if there's any other cities with teams in the O or the Q that make sense, but Kingston seems like it should be a reasonable distance from the best traveling ECAC fan bases.

We could get players' parents (and recruits) if we held it in Nanaimo **] (I was going to advocate St. Johns, which would be awesome for postgame drinking, but we seem to be limited to about one Newfoundlander every 10 years.)

From NYC it costs $500+ to fly to Newfoundland and you're lucky if you can find a flight with just one connection in each direction.  From Syracuse it's $750+ and you almost certainly have to make two connections.  From Ithaca, once Kayak stops laughing at you, it's close to $1k and three connections.

Alternately, from Ithaca it's 1,822 miles by car (about as far as Regina, Saskatchewan, is in the other direction) that includes a 90-mile, seven-hour ferry ride (costing, if I'm reading the website right, about $100 per car plus $40 per passenger) from Sydney, Nova Scotia, to Newfoundland itself.  It's also about 10 degrees colder than Ithaca in March, on average, and they get almost twice as much snow.

In short:  sign me up!

[Killer]

I seriously doubt you'd get ANY local support in Montreal, either.  There aren't too many Quebecois in the ECAC, and Montrealers are notoriously parochial about their hockey support. There are more Ontario kids in the ECAC, so if you were going to consider Canada (which you shouldn't) Ottowa or Toronto are better bets.

I agree Montreal wouldn't make any sense, but smaller Canadian cities like Ottawa or even smaller, maybe Kingston could make sense.  Geographically, I'm not sure if there's any other cities with teams in the O or the Q that make sense, but Kingston seems like it should be a reasonable distance from the best traveling ECAC fan bases.

We could get players' parents (and recruits) if we held it in Nanaimo **] (I was going to advocate St. Johns, which would be awesome for postgame drinking, but we seem to be limited to about one Newfoundlander every 10 years.)

From NYC it costs $500+ to fly to Newfoundland and you're lucky if you can find a flight with just one connection in each direction.  From Syracuse it's $750+ and you almost certainly have to make two connections.  From Ithaca, once Kayak stops laughing at you, it's close to $1k and three connections.

Alternately, from Ithaca it's 1,822 miles by car (about as far as Regina, Saskatchewan, is in the other direction) that includes a 90-mile, seven-hour ferry ride (costing, if I'm reading the website right, about $100 per car plus $40 per passenger) from Sydney, Nova Scotia, to Newfoundland itself.  It's also about 10 degrees colder than Ithaca in March, on average, and they get almost twice as much snow.

In short:  sign me up!

Sign me up for St. Johns.  What could be better than the tropical island of Newfoundland?  Hockey, drinking and Great Big Sea!

[Jim Hyla]

If you're driving across the border into Canada you can use an "enhanced driver's license" as ID instead of a passport.  Cheaper and somewhat easier to get than a passport (though, it does require a trip to the DMV....ugh).  It isn't much faster than getting a passport.  

In my case, getting one for myself and enhanced, non-driver state IDs for my minor-age children instead of getting passports saved me a few hundred dollars.  Plus, I didn't have to deal with getting their father to sign anything (which I would have had to do for a passport).  I guess the government isn't concerned that I'm going to kidnap the children and flee to Canada or Mexico.

I do think the ID requirements make Canada a poor choice for the ECAC tourney...but somebody on here might want to cross the border and, I dunno, enjoy the pleasures of Ste Catherine St.

Enhanced IDs are a useful alternative to a full passport, but they do not have the broad utility of a passport.

CK

I agree, any NY resident who even thinks about ever going to Canada should get an enhanced license. It's definately faster than a passport and you use it just like a regular drivers license. As an example, if you're in Buffalo you can just decide on the spur of the moment to go to Canada. If we ever again have a regional in Grand Rapids, you can drive through Canada. Definately worth the money, but you can't fly with it, only walk or drive. But we'll never have ECACs in Canada.

[Scersk '97]

Really, it's pathetic that we need any sort of identification beyond a regular driver's license.  Not to start a political screed, but this is what comes from being ruled by governors from the South.  By rights, the Canada/US border should be the breeziest, wheeziest, fastest gettin' through border between non-Schengen states.  We all know that's not the case.

Clearly, we need to build a wall to prevent people from walking across the border in, say, upper Montana.

[Chris '03]

If you're driving across the border into Canada you can use an "enhanced driver's license" as ID instead of a passport.  Cheaper and somewhat easier to get than a passport (though, it does require a trip to the DMV....ugh).  It isn't much faster than getting a passport.  

In my case, getting one for myself and enhanced, non-driver state IDs for my minor-age children instead of getting passports saved me a few hundred dollars.  Plus, I didn't have to deal with getting their father to sign anything (which I would have had to do for a passport).  I guess the government isn't concerned that I'm going to kidnap the children and flee to Canada or Mexico.

I do think the ID requirements make Canada a poor choice for the ECAC tourney...but somebody on here might want to cross the border and, I dunno, enjoy the pleasures of Ste Catherine St.

Enhanced IDs are a useful alternative to a full passport, but they do not have the broad utility of a passport.

CK

I agree, any NY resident who even thinks about ever going to Canada should get an enhanced license. It's definately faster than a passport and you use it just like a regular drivers license. As an example, if you're in Buffalo you can just decide on the spur of the moment to go to Canada. If we ever again have a regional in Grand Rapids, you can drive through Canada. Definately worth the money, but you can't fly with it, only walk or drive. But we'll never have ECACs in Canada.

This is interesting because I renewed my license here in CT a few months ago and was given the option of paying more and getting the enhanced license. They told me that my license would expire before I needed it to fly and that it otherwise had no purpose whatsoever so there was no point in getting it even though I'd dug through papers for an hour to find the 75 required points of ID. Apparently passport isn't good enough. You need passport AND birth certificate AND social security card or something equally ridiculous.

None of the paperwork mentioned anything about Canada, only air travel.

[Trotsky]

The State Department, especially under the current administration, advocates student-student cultural exchanges as one of the most effective elements of soft power for the United States.

Move Hockey East to Mogadishu and take Boston back.