Big Ten Hockey Conference

[Trotsky]

Via CHN, interesting article from kypost.com on the idea of merging the WCHA and CCHA.

Interesting that Jackson also suggested (at least mentioned it), giving it a little more weight than the usual "I have no article but I do have a deadline" fluff piece.  One sentence, though:

The NCAA allowed this to happen by allowing the Big Ten to break up two of its top three conferences.

The NC$$ did not "allow this to happen."  It's an automatic trigger as soon as six BT members have programs.  The NC$$ couldn't do squat about it (though of course they wouldn't have, as they are just a fig leaf for the factory schools' control of college athletics' revenue).

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

Via CHN, interesting article from kypost.com on the idea of merging the WCHA and CCHA.

That's not horrible.  But it does require Air Force to play in a different confernce from Army.  If that was their legitimate reason for their leaving CHA (and I have my doubts), that will have to be overcome.

[Trotsky]

Via CHN, interesting article from kypost.com on the idea of merging the WCHA and CCHA.

That's not horrible.  But it does require Air Force to play in a different confernce from Army.  If that was their legitimate reason for their leaving CHA (and I have my doubts), that will have to be overcome.

The base idea doesn't require either AF or UAH, those are just the writer blue-skying.  The 18-team base conference could work, particularly with a 3x6 configuration.

Since it's all speculation anyway: if they were going to combine and realign what would stop them from saying "we're actually 3 conferences with interlocking schedules (and 3 autobids)"?  They couldn't play a combined post-season tournament but... win-win-win for them.

(I suppose we could argue the same for the current ECAC, with the same proviso).  What makes a conference a conference?

[RatushnyFan]

The NC$$ did not "allow this to happen."  It's an automatic trigger as soon as six BT members have programs.  The NC$$ couldn't do squat about it (though of course they wouldn't have, as they are just a fig leaf for the factory schools' control of college athletics' revenue).

I read that the Big Ten required 6 teams to form a sports conference and that the NCAA required a minimum 6 team conference to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.  I wasn't aware of the automatic trigger though - where did you learn about this?  Just curious.

The author also suggests that ND could choose to join the Big Ten which obviously won't happen due to their lucrative independent football gig.

Good to see hockey getting covered in the mighty KYPost!

[Trotsky]

The NC$$ did not "allow this to happen."  It's an automatic trigger as soon as six BT members have programs.  The NC$$ couldn't do squat about it (though of course they wouldn't have, as they are just a fig leaf for the factory schools' control of college athletics' revenue).

I read that the Big Ten required 6 teams to form a sports conference and that the NCAA required a minimum 6 team conference to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.  I wasn't aware of the automatic trigger though - where did you learn about this?  Just curious.

I think we're talking about the same thing using different language.  I was referring to the Big Ten rule that once you hit 6 you must play as the BT.  The NCAA requirement allows a 6-team BT to get a bid but it isn't a factor in the Exodus from the WCHA and CCHA as far as I can see, other than a possible inducement to the other BT members to encourage PSU to move up.

The main point was the author seemed to be suggesting the NC$$ owed something to the CCHA and WCHA for helping break them up, something I think is totally false (though I would like the CCHA in particular to get all the breaks they can to keep Lake Superior State, etc at D-1.)

[Trotsky]

If AH and the WCHA are set and HE has their "cozy schedule arrangement," I wonder whether Hagwell, who "declined to comment" whether he has spoken with Notre Dame (I doubt they would return his call), has any sort of idea what to do to benefit the ECAC?

The CCHA clubs are:

Notre Dame
Alaska
the "southern small schools": Bowling Green, Miami
the "central small schools": Ferris State, Western Michigan
the "northern small schools": Northern Michigan, Lake Superior State

Look at that conference if Notre Dame leaves.  Guh!

Atlantic Hockey's western teams are:

Air Force (Colorado Springs)
Niagara
RIT
Canisius (Buffalo)
Mercyhurst (Erie PA)
Robert Morris (western border of PA)

The AH eastern schools are:

Bentley
Holy Cross
Army
Sacred Heart
UConn (who everybody thinks will eventually go to HE)
American International (who everybody thinks will eventually go bankrupt if they aren't already)

[Robb]

I was referring to the Big Ten rule that once you hit 6 you must play as the BT.

I know this has been debated endlessly on USCHO and various people have (or think they have) different information, but I'm 95% certain that the rule is that the B10 may not sponsor a sport unless at least 6 member schools participate in it.  In other words, 6 schools playing hockey is a necessary condition to allow a BTHC, but that alone is not sufficient to cause the conference to form automatically.  After all, the B10 Council of Presidents still has to vote to approve the conference in June - if the rule was automatic, no vote would be required.

[css228]

I was referring to the Big Ten rule that once you hit 6 you must play as the BT.

I know this has been debated endlessly on USCHO and various people have (or think they have) different information, but I'm 95% certain that the rule is that the B10 may not sponsor a sport unless at least 6 member schools participate in it.  In other words, 6 schools playing hockey is a necessary condition to allow a BTHC, but that alone is not sufficient to cause the conference to form automatically.  After all, the B10 Council of Presidents still has to vote to approve the conference in June - if the rule was automatic, no vote would be required.

That said, the moment the Big Ten conference is formed by whatever number of schools, all the Big Ten schools must be members. From the Minnesota fans I've heard on the topic, there's some discontent from them with having to move to a BTHC both within the fans and their Athletic Department. It sounds as though they would rather have been in the WCHA, but had to come along with the other 5 and are just putting a good public face on.
*also I don't hate the authors suggestions except for the fact that the ECAC would be doing nothing to take advantage of a changing College Hockey landscape and getting better. I think we all agree that ECAC needs to be more competitive so our teams (specifically Cornell) will have more success in the national tournament*

[Trotsky]

also I don't hate the authors suggestions except for the fact that the ECAC would be doing nothing to take advantage of a changing College Hockey landscape and getting better. I think we all agree that ECAC needs to be more competitive so our teams (specifically Cornell) will have more success in the national tournament

I'm all for improving the conference but in this case I'm not sure what they could do -- to the extent there may be opportunities for expansion, it would be expanding to include financially wobbly programs -- making a problem our problem.

Cornell might have an opportunity to do something for themselves if the smaller BT means that frees up NC games for their 4 traditional powers.  I hope that happens -- the occasional NC game vs Michigan or Wisconsin would be wonderful, even if it was always on the road (do it for the kids, Mike).

And if they want to admit Alaska you know we'd all make that roadtrip at least once.  

[Lauren '06]

Cornell defects from the Ivy League and joins the Big Ten.

You're welcome.

[Josh '99]

And if they want to admit Alaska you know we'd all make that roadtrip at least once.  

Many of us already started pricing flights for a trip to Colorado Springs next season; what's another 3000 miles?

[Trotsky]

And if they want to admit Alaska you know we'd all make that roadtrip at least once.  

Many of us already started pricing flights for a trip to Colorado Springs next season; what's another 3000 miles?

Ithaca-Fairbanks roundtrip for next January on CheapFlights: $1053.

[Trotsky]

Cornell defects from the Ivy League and joins the Big Ten.

You're welcome.

There is nothing new under the sun.

[Scersk '97]

To focus our discussion, I rather hastily threw together this, based on the file available in Wikimedia Commons here.



I see Northern Michigan looking attractive to the WCHA, a potential three-team Upper Peninsula (the UP) conference (Tech, Northern, and LSSU) or four-team UP plus Alaska divison, and a five-team Michohiana conference or division. I think a smaller-time CCHA would be doable as a 9-team, two-division conference; indeed, if Michigan Tech were to jump in order to make that possible, they might be able to get back on track in a weaker CCHA.

Alabama-Huntsville still looks very much left out in the "warm," as much as LSSU, as Jeff Jackson implied, could be left out in the cold if Northern goes elsewhere.  If Notre Dame goes elsewhere, Miami is also in a tough spot.  
 
A couple of other things occur to me, though.  Robert Morris used to be in the 18-scholarship CHA, and has been now shoehorned into 11-scholarship Atlantic Hockey.  Would they want to jump?  That would make a six-team Michohiana plus RMU autobid conference or a 10-team CCHA (with Tech) that would be best split into two divisions.  (Tough on Ferris, though.)  If you wanted to dismember AH, the five-team Michohiana plus RMU, Mercyhurst, Canisius, and Niagara looks somewhat contiguous.  Would Canisius and Mercyhurst want to go to 18 scholarships?  If that happens, can we kick out Quinnipiac and take RIT?  Will Al-Huntsville make another year?

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

That's pretty neat.